3. How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
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Author Topic: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?  (Read 1931 times)

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dave-o

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2024, 10:30:32 am »
Quote from: tasty_snacks on September 28, 2024, 12:28:15 am

Ultimately, IMO, people just don't have the time to fight. But if provided with a free recourse system that was made abundantly clear from the offset, with the option of triage to weed out the no hopes, and if that was regulated to make sure it was clear on every single PCN, that's the only way more would be encouraged.

Sadly this is true, especially in the case of private invoices.  If I add up the time used to bring a recent DCBL saga to a close it's along the lines of:

- Informal appeal 30m
- POPLA appeal 60m
- Filing and ignoring 8 DCBL threats - 8m
- Initial response to court filing - 30m
- Understanding , drafting and filing full defence - 180m
- Being on hold to CNBC - 45m
- Tidying up (confirmation of discontinuance, removal of data request) - 20m

Total: almost 5 hours

If I consider the original invoice was for £40, I am effectively working for about £8 an hour.  I would do better to pay the invoice and do a half day shift at McDonald's.

There really should be some kind of financial jeopardy for the PPC/agent.

Personally for me the principle is worth more than the time/money, so I will always fight.  But if I was more pragmatic, as most normal people are, I would probably have to conclude that it's not worth fighting the whole way.
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Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2024, 09:55:29 pm »
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε
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cp8759

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2024, 08:37:32 pm »
Surely we should target the whole of the UK rather than just London specifically?
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Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2024, 08:50:30 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on October 23, 2024, 08:37:32 pm
Surely we should target the whole of the UK rather than just London specifically?

It is in the text.  I will do another one tomorrow before I fly back. It has been a hectic break.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

dave-o

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2024, 11:42:32 am »
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roythebus

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2024, 04:19:56 am »
Was the queue at the High Street kebab shop that long that it was quicker to go to Greece to get one??
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Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2024, 12:13:43 pm »
I have got a shirt for our administrator too.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 12:17:48 pm by Hippocrates »
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2024, 12:30:03 pm »
Quote from: roythebus on October 25, 2024, 04:19:56 am
Was the queue at the High Street kebab shop that long that it was quicker to go to Greece to get one??
Hey Roy. No pun intended; but, it was a busman's holiday for the most part! Violin + cases + appeals.  :) Some swimming, sunning et al.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

cp8759

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2024, 03:33:10 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on October 26, 2024, 12:13:43 pm
I have got a shirt for our administrator too.
There's two of us, but I'm not sure how keen @Southpaw82 is on getting one?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

mickR

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2024, 03:53:12 pm »
good job they aren't trousers as they would need 3 legs. (not a reference to Rolf)
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Southpaw82

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2024, 03:57:15 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on October 26, 2024, 03:33:10 pm
Quote from: Hippocrates on October 26, 2024, 12:13:43 pm
I have got a shirt for our administrator too.
There's two of us, but I'm not sure how keen @Southpaw82 is on getting one?

Be a great one to wear in court 🤣

Quote from: mickR on October 26, 2024, 03:53:12 pm
good job they aren't trousers as they would need 3 legs. (not a reference to Rolf)

🤐
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Hippocrates

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2024, 09:01:14 pm »
@cp8759 I could not get a logo of a wizard for the reverse side so I used a Spartan icon instead. I will do the other video shortly in Surrey. Hopefully at Claremont Gardens as there is a natural amphitheatre there. I assume the figures for outside London are similar?

BTW, I will be wearing mine most of this week at Furnival Street. 8)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2024, 09:12:11 pm by Hippocrates »
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

cp8759

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2024, 09:10:54 pm »
Quote from: Hippocrates on October 26, 2024, 09:01:14 pm
I assume the figures for outside London are similar?
They're basically the same, 10 million or so PCNs a year and only 50-60k appeals. The only difference is that they're spread across some 300 authorities rather than 34.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

HJ____h

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2024, 08:20:41 pm »
- Your stats like we overturn 90% of PCNs = hope

- Your involvement / leading / expertise / musketeering attitude is obviously a huge factor

I’ve always wanted to fight a rejected appeal but have been too scared / no head space to learn what to do so maybe team the hope with clear step by step guide and offer to sense check a case at first like suggested.

I’ve thoroughly enjoyed my interactions with P so far - and enjoying making the council work for their money if the case should go their way.

I hope to find my own vigilantly style purpose in future too 😂
 
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roythebus

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Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2024, 09:33:47 pm »
All you need to do is read through some of the postings in the council tickets forum; if you want to challenge private tickets, read through the private tickets section. there's a lot to. tak in. Don't be afraid to post on here, there's always someone clueless like me who will give the wrong answer! And a lot more who will put me right..
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