Free Traffic Legal Advice

@Hippocrates and who is going to conduct all these additional appeals?

A few (very few) people can do it themselves, but in the vast majority of cases if you leave people to their own devices they run a serious risk of messing things up, we've seen that pattern play out repeatedly:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/warwickshire-cc-pcn-code-24-not-within-markings-of-bay-lakin-road-warwick/msg3575/#msg3575
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/walking-pushing-my-bike-in-a-restricted-zone/msg20666/#msg20666
https://web.archive.org/web/20230704113549/http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=149680&mode=linear

I just had someone contact me yesterday and they'd messed things up so much they had a charge certificate they had no grounds to challenge, at least that was resolved quickly.

There is certainly no shortage of appellants and unless you're going to set up a representatives training scheme and recruit some more people to help, I'm not sure having the site flooded with loads of threads nobody has the time to investigate properly and in a timely manner would be that beneficial.

I'm already operating at full capacity (despite the fact that I now charge everyone), I'm not sure Derek has much spare capacity either. If you want to offer your services to more motorists on here or on the facebook group, be my guest!

The impulses behind my question were as follows:

1. To encourage more motorists to fight their tickets - the general public. I did not wish to imply any direct involvement of this site or any individuals either.

2. To cut through the general apathy of most recipients - for whatever reason - who simply pay up at the first stage.

I have some ideas which would utilise media etc.

On a personal note, of course I am available to do more appeals if requested. I also know my limitations and strengths.  And, I am improving. 

I think that the problems include:

1   complex legislation, it took me a year or two to get up to speed. During that time you could lose many PCNs and feel like giving up (as it happens I won my first 38 tribunal cases and nowadays I lose more if I get the 'wrong' adjudicator)

2   a shortage of people who have the time, ability & inclination to assist strangers with their problems. I am struggling to keep up now it is summer with my 50-100 PCN workload as I am trying to be away cycling every other week.

3   the economics of trying to run a business to do this

4   Apathy (as already stated) and here is an example of someone who wants to beat their second moving traffic PCN at the same location but doesn't really want to put in any effort.

Hi Derek,

Sorry for the delayed response.

I have just confirmed and I believe that the second contravention happened before the first letter was received so there was no notice, if that makes sense.

His mother is a resident of the area, hence why the driver was there on multiple occasions. I believe there are resident cards available for this but they do not own one.

Please let me know what you think, happy to appeal it if you think it is the better option.

The signs are there to tell you where and how to drive not PCNs.

That said that multiple PCNs argument sometimes works but won't for me as I give councils hell so kindness in return is not likely.

I do not wish to volunteer to make representations for this PCN but nothing stops Redacted from doing so (they must be in his name).

Best regards

Derek

This exchange was during the week. The PCN is now paid.

I think a possible solution is software which helps people follow due process, suggests possible challenge wordings and ensures they don't miss a deadline and could have online experts who contribute as on FTLA, possibly for a small fee. Who has the skillset to write it, what would it cost and can it be commercialised on a pay per pcn basis?

Depending on how much it would cost to deploy such a programme, does it need to be commercially viable? Much as support for FTLA would be appreciated, it is currently financed by me (others do much of the running of the site though).

1  complex legislation, it took me a year or two to get up to speed. During that time you could lose many PCNs and feel like giving up (as it happens I won my first 38 tribunal cases and nowadays I lose more if I get the 'wrong' adjudicator)

That's where I think a pupilage system could help: rather than letting people go off on their own, we would need novice representatives to act under the supervision of an established representative. It would be much easier for someone to learn how to go about things if they're simply told how things work / what legal arguments to use / what strategy is known to be effective, rather than having to work everything out for themselves from scratch.

If someone can find me a willing and capable pupil, I'd be more than happy to train someone up.

The two most basic of inputs would need to be:

1) The Act of Parliament under which the PCN falls (which is given on the face of the PCN or Notice to Owner), and
2) The stage at which the PCN is.

You'd want to incorporate instructions based on all the various permutations listed at https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process and https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/how-to-appeal/ (the most common being TMA 2004, LLA&TFL Act 2003 and LLA Act 1996) depending on whether it's a roadside PCN, CCTV PCN, drive away PCN etc. You'd want the system to explain that for their type of PCN, they can make informal / formal representations as applicable.

You'd also want to explain that at least as far as England & Wales is concerned, pretty much all local authorities except Nottingham and (for CAZ PCNs only) Birmingham, the discount is reoffered at the formal reps stage if representations are made within 14 days of the date of issue of the notice to owner or postal PCN.

And then you'd want to cover all the scenarios I have written these guides for:

https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-l-1805/
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-the-road-user-charging-schemes-(penalty-charges-adjudication-/
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-notic/
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/ground-2-witness-statements-statutory-declarations-accepted-by-the-traffic-enfor/

As for the last guide, we've not got a version for the Traffic Penalty Tribunal as that scenario has not come up yet.

That's the most basic structure that would at least explain the procedural side of things.

Of course one major problem we have is that most people come to us with a half-baked story and they misunderstand / misdescribe what's happened or what documents they've received, which is why we always ask to just see the paperwork and mostly ignore what people tell us they think has happened (at least until after we've seen the documents).

@Hippocrates I think the key issue is having willing OPs is not enough, we need to be able to support them. The best way IMO is to get more willing representatives. Maybe you can find a law student who fancies some real-life litigation experience?