11
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Bus Stop Fine
« Last post by Eskay on Yesterday at 07:52:41 pm »Thank you
Recent Posts
12
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: CEO Revenge - PCN Misconduct
« Last post by C_H_R_I_S on Yesterday at 07:41:15 pm »im pretty sure as I was next to the car arguing with him and he walked off.
Also my neighbour had footage at the same time and couldnt see him there at that time
How do we know his photos are trustworthy?
Also my neighbour had footage at the same time and couldnt see him there at that time
How do we know his photos are trustworthy?
13
Private parking tickets / Re: Parking fine at my own home
« Last post by DWMB2 on Yesterday at 07:41:10 pm »The reason I and other posters have been somewhat labouring the point around the lease is because if PCM eventually sue you in the County Court, primacy of contract would have been by far your strongest arm of defence. There is still likely a decent amount of time before they do take you to court (if they decide to), which should be more than enough time for your parents to obtain a copy of their lease from the landower. But, if they are unwilling to help you out by doing this we will have to explore other options.
Ok, to recap where we are:
For the parking charge you have received for parking in your own bay, the following potential arguments:
For the parking charge you have received for parking in the Housing Association's spot, the 'No contractual offer' argument would seem to be the best fit, again, subject to what the signs say.
Ok, to recap where we are:
- You live in a property, but have no contractual agreement to be there, as you have been allowed to live there by your parents
- Your parents likewise cannot provide you with any documents to prove that they have any contractual agreement to be there
- As a result of not being able to locate a lease, they likewise cannot prove that they have a space(s) demised to them via said lease
- You mentioned at one point "All the agreement mentions is that the car park requires a permit", but as yet we do not know what agreement this is, how it came into your possession, nor which parties said agreement is between
- You have 2 tickets in play. 1 is for parking in a bay that is allocated to you (via the missing lease), and 1 is for parking in a bay allocated to a third party (the housing association).
For the parking charge you have received for parking in your own bay, the following potential arguments:
- Primacy of contract. The parking spot is demised to your parents, who granted you permission to park in it. A difficult argument to run without evidence.
- No contractual offer - we have not yet seen photos of the signage (this would be useful), but if it requires the displaying of a permit, there is an argument to be made that the signage is prohibitive, insofar as it doesn't make a contractual offer to those without a permit to park. The downside here is that you do have a permit, it simply wasn't displayed.
- No commercial justification - you had a permit, but simply forgot to display it, and as such now they are aware you have one, there is no commercial justification for continuing to pursue you. The counter argument here might be that there is a commercial justification for penalising non-diplay, on the basis that the wardens who patrol need to be able to identify who is entitled to park where, so that they can effectively manage parking. This argument could potentially be overcome.
For the parking charge you have received for parking in the Housing Association's spot, the 'No contractual offer' argument would seem to be the best fit, again, subject to what the signs say.
14
Private parking tickets / Re: Universal Parking Enforcement - Passenger or Driver left the premises whilst vehicle parked on site - Shell Garage L
« Last post by padre on Yesterday at 07:10:01 pm »Ok, this is my response,
"The Operator's position holds no weight. The keeper of the vehicle can not be held liable without the POFA. The Notice to Keeper was issued too late for this and therefore the Operator's assumption alone is not enough.
Please refer to the case of EXCEL PARKING SERVICES v ANTHONY SMITH (Manchester County Court) in which HHJ Smith confirmed there is no legal presumption that the keeper is the driver. Also VEHICLE CONTROL SERVICES LTD v IAN EDWARD (Teeside Combined Court) in which HHJ Gargan held that a registered keeper cannot be assumed to have been driving, nor could any adverse inference be drawn if a keeper is unable or unwilling to nominate a driver because the POFA does not invoke any such obligation.
In conclusion, I, the keeper of the vehicle, will not be held liable for these made up charges.
Anything to add?
"The Operator's position holds no weight. The keeper of the vehicle can not be held liable without the POFA. The Notice to Keeper was issued too late for this and therefore the Operator's assumption alone is not enough.
Please refer to the case of EXCEL PARKING SERVICES v ANTHONY SMITH (Manchester County Court) in which HHJ Smith confirmed there is no legal presumption that the keeper is the driver. Also VEHICLE CONTROL SERVICES LTD v IAN EDWARD (Teeside Combined Court) in which HHJ Gargan held that a registered keeper cannot be assumed to have been driving, nor could any adverse inference be drawn if a keeper is unable or unwilling to nominate a driver because the POFA does not invoke any such obligation.
In conclusion, I, the keeper of the vehicle, will not be held liable for these made up charges.
Anything to add?
15
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Bus Stop Fine
« Last post by MrChips on Yesterday at 06:52:44 pm »The good news is that you are in time to get the process reset.
With the Order for Recovery comes a form which (if submitted in time) gives you the right to have the process revert back to before the Charge Certificate was issued on the basis that you submitted representations to the council but never got their notice of rejection.
Others will be along with more detailed instructions (I've got no personal experience of this bit).
With the Order for Recovery comes a form which (if submitted in time) gives you the right to have the process revert back to before the Charge Certificate was issued on the basis that you submitted representations to the council but never got their notice of rejection.
Others will be along with more detailed instructions (I've got no personal experience of this bit).
16
News / Press Articles / Re: Croydon Croydon LTNs ruled unlawful as High Court finds they were used to boost council finances
« Last post by andy_foster on Yesterday at 06:40:16 pm »17
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Hillingdon, Code 62 Parked with one or wheels on or over footpath, Monmouth Road, Hayes, Middx
« Last post by dexx99 on Yesterday at 06:38:20 pm »Hi Tania2026,
Sorry for the delay in responding.
I don't remember the legal argument CP8759 proposed to represent me with.
Best to PM CP8759. CP8759 represented me on a no-win-no-fee basis. LBOH conceded before the matter got to the tribunal hearing date. CP8759 wasn't sure why, other than his name scared them off contesting in the end.
Definitely worth challenging imho. The fact that Hillingdon council caved before the hearing would suggest a high likelihood of a win in your case too.
Sorry for the delay in responding.
I don't remember the legal argument CP8759 proposed to represent me with.
Best to PM CP8759. CP8759 represented me on a no-win-no-fee basis. LBOH conceded before the matter got to the tribunal hearing date. CP8759 wasn't sure why, other than his name scared them off contesting in the end.
Definitely worth challenging imho. The fact that Hillingdon council caved before the hearing would suggest a high likelihood of a win in your case too.
18
News / Press Articles / Re: Croydon Croydon LTNs ruled unlawful as High Court finds they were used to boost council finances
« Last post by Southpaw82 on Yesterday at 06:37:47 pm »The court seems to have been persuaded otherwise.
19
Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Bus Stop Fine
« Last post by Eskay on Yesterday at 06:30:45 pm »Thank you
Here are a couple of photos and the street map
https://maps.app.goo.gl/pFVsfwpZx7oYfR9Z8
The car was registered in my ex girlfriends name, and she has since sold it
Kind Regards
Samuel
Here are a couple of photos and the street map
https://maps.app.goo.gl/pFVsfwpZx7oYfR9Z8
The car was registered in my ex girlfriends name, and she has since sold it
Kind Regards
Samuel
20