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OK unless anyone has any other suggestions I'll get him to send them another email pointing out his previous reply still applies.
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Best to let her know what she needs to do, or she'll have bailiffs on her in a few weeks.
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Private parking tickets / Re: Parking fine at my own home
« Last post by DWMB2 on Today at 10:21:50 pm »
Is for me parking in a bay I'm entitled to park in but forgot a permit. And I have stated that I forgot my permit and submitted evidence of me having a permit. What are the likely directions that this goes down?
Essentially, as I said in my post above. They might cancel. If they don't, then you can run the various arguments above. PCM's likely argument will be that you're only entitled to park in that bay if both have and display a permit. There are arguments you can raise against this, as I outline above.

The strongest of those arguments would be showing that you had the express permission of the owners of the space to park there, but of course this comes back to proving the primacy of contract (i.e. that they own the space to be able to assign such permissions to you). The other arguments are as above.
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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Bus Stop Fine
« Last post by Eskay on Today at 10:21:01 pm »
Oh blimey, it was sent to her. That'll be a laugh, we are in the process of breaking up and selling the house
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Private parking tickets / Re: Parking fine at my own home
« Last post by luke2397 on Today at 10:12:24 pm »
The reason I and other posters have been somewhat labouring the point around the lease is because if PCM eventually sue you in the County Court, primacy of contract would have been by far your strongest arm of defence. There is still likely a decent amount of time before they do take you to court (if they decide to), which should be more than enough time for your parents to obtain a copy of their lease from the landower. But, if they are unwilling to help you out by doing this we will have to explore other options.

Ok, to recap where we are:
  • You live in a property, but have no contractual agreement to be there, as you have been allowed to live there by your parents
  • Your parents likewise cannot provide you with any documents to prove that they have any contractual agreement to be there
  • As a result of not being able to locate a lease, they likewise cannot prove that they have a space(s) demised to them via said lease
  • You mentioned at one point "All the agreement mentions is that the car park requires a permit", but as yet we do not know what agreement this is, how it came into your possession, nor which parties said agreement is between
  • You have 2 tickets in play. 1 is for parking in a bay that is allocated to you (via the missing lease), and 1 is for parking in a bay allocated to a third party (the housing association).

For the parking charge you have received for parking in your own bay, the following potential arguments:
  • Primacy of contract. The parking spot is demised to your parents, who granted you permission to park in it. A difficult argument to run without evidence.
  • No contractual offer - we have not yet seen photos of the signage (this would be useful), but if it requires the displaying of a permit, there is an argument to be made that the signage is prohibitive, insofar as it doesn't make a contractual offer to those without a permit to park. The downside here is that you do have a permit, it simply wasn't displayed.
  • No commercial justification - you had a permit, but simply forgot to display it, and as such now they are aware you have one, there is no commercial justification for continuing to pursue you. The counter argument here might be that there is a commercial justification for penalising non-diplay, on the basis that the wardens who patrol need to be able to identify who is entitled to park where, so that they can effectively manage parking. This argument could potentially be overcome.

For the parking charge you have received for parking in the Housing Association's spot, the 'No contractual offer' argument would seem to be the best fit, again, subject to what the signs say.

I can try and get them to find some sort of lease agreement again. Going by other posters questioning, my parents own the flat and have in the past rented it out, I then moved in but didn't sign a lease agreement with them.

Going by my recent post about my appeal, given the fact that the specific one that I'm getting chased for. (Of the 2 fines I've got only 1 currently is being actively pursued) Is for me parking in a bay I'm entitled to park in but forgot a permit. And I have stated that I forgot my permit and submitted evidence of me having a permit. What are the likely directions that this goes down?
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Was the original notice sent to you or your gf? If it's her hame then she will have to deal with it. You can deal with it if she gives you permission to do so.

If the council have sent an information pack, does it have a photo of a little yellow sign at the bus stop that says "No Stopping Except Buses"?  That gives the car driver a clue as to not what to do and there's usually an associated camera watching you. If that photo is missing or the sign isn't there, that can be a good point of appeal.
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Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) / Re: Bus Stop Fine
« Last post by Eskay on Today at 09:20:31 pm »
Thank you, I have downloaded and completed the form, and emailed it to tec@justice

This is their response

Thank you for emailing the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC)


Emails are processed in date order (Oldest to newest) and we are unable to assist you in the following circumstances;

• If you don't have the PCN, you will need to contact the Local / Charging Authority, or their enforcement agents, to confirm this information. We cannot help you with this.

• You wish to pay / arrange a payment plan - contact the issuing authority OR the Enforcement agents not TEC. We cannot help you with this.

If you’re emailing to obtain forms, you can download these forms from https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms

• this is the preferred option and removes delays that you may experience in your email being handled.

*Please don’t send chase up emails, we are working in arrears and this will add to the current volumes.

*If you have submitted an out of time application, please note that it will take approx. 8 – 10 weeks for a decision to be made. You will be informed of the outcome in due course.

Please note the business hours are Monday to Friday 9am-4pm excluding bank holidays. All forms/ emails received after 4pm will be classed as received on the next working day
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Assuming your bus lane PCN was served under the Transport Management Act 2004, you should have received a Form TE9 Witness Statement included in the envelope containing the Order for Recovery.  Please tell us if you received this form. If not, you can download it from the TEC website: -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-te9-dart-charge-mersey-gateway-clear-air-zones-challenge-a-traffic-enforcement-order

TEC seem to not know that this form covers PCNs served under the Traffic Management Act 2004 !! One would think a government body which is part of the Ministry of Justice would know, but there you are.

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It seems to me your original representations are adequate for presentation to the adjudicators except that you have quoted the wrong regulations. The correct regulations are quoted at the top of the PCN : -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/regulation/11/made

plus there is another set related to representations and appeals :-
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2022/9780348232752/contents

Adjudications nowadays are done by phone, or video. If you go to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal it is explained there.
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Hi @Hippocrates

My sister-in-law received a rejection letter from Haringey council for the PCN mentioned above. I've added it my drop folder (link), file 'Rejection Notice 030326'.

The prior appeal we sent them and that they responded to is below. We'd like to send the PCN to the parking adjudicator; if you can suggest any further points to include in the submission to the adjudicator I would really appreciate it.

---------------
I am writing in relation to the 07/01/26 enforcement notice sent in relation to PCN ZN19143930.

I make these formal representations against the Enforcement Notice. The video does not prove an alleged contravention as  there is no evidence of the vehicle passing an upright sign.  Please cancel therefore.

I did not receive Haringey Council's appeal response. I moved home in December, and set up post forwarding to my new address, so whether I did not receive it due to an error on the part of Royal Mail or Haringey Council is unknown. Please:
- Send all future correspondence by email rather than post - xxxx
- Send me your original appeal response, so I have it for my records.
--------------

Kind Regards

Tom
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