Author Topic: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter  (Read 1603 times)

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houji

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RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« on: September 29, 2025, 03:32:10 pm »
Hello,

I am the registered keeper of a vechile that was parked in a private car park on June 20th: RCP Rochdale Road, Manchester.

The driver parks in this car park sometimes. One day there were issues with the app, it took a couple attempts to pay, but maybe it didn't actually go through in the end.

I was away from home until the middle of August and when I returned I had 2 letters from RCP detailing parking charges for non-payment, dated July 24th and August 11th, (back of letters). The July 24th letter asks for £100 and mentions it being overdue and states a discounted rate is no longer available, I assume there was a previous letter that was not delivered.

I went to their online portal (https://rcp.ec6pay.com) to see if there was still a way to dispute the charge and it couldn't find the PCN. I wasn't sure what to do next, so did a quick Google and the gist seemed to be that a PCN from a private car park is largely unenforceable and letter were often scare tactics, so I thought given the PCN didn't exist on their portal I could ignore it.

On Friday (Sept 26th) I received a letter from debt collector Trace, dated Sept 18th, (back of letter). They are seeking £170 by Oct 1st. A friend recommended this forum, so here I am.

I've read a couple threads, but I don't know what to do. Any advice would be very welcomed. Am I legally responsible to pay the debt collector now? Do I need to be worried about the Oct 1st deadline?

Thank you

(I don't have the original signage from the car park, but I could try and collect it later in the week if that would be helpful.)





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jfollows

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2025, 03:42:39 pm »
Debt collectors have no power and should largely be ignored.

PCNs from private parking companies are enforceable under contract law. The driver entered into a contract by parking as detailed on the signs.

See https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/ as to why you probably shouldn’t use words like “I”. But you didn’t.

Shame you don’t have the original PCN. Depending on its contents, you - registered keeper - could be liable for the actions of the driver.
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houji

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2025, 03:48:41 pm »
Should I contact RCP and ask for a copy of it? Or is there any other way to find out if I'm liable as the registered keeper?

Dave65

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2025, 04:40:09 pm »
You could contact the RCP with a subject access request asking for all the details they have on the keeper.
Include a copy of a utility bill (personal details redacted references to payments etc. Name and address showing and the reference number of the PPN.

Do not be tempted to telephone any of these people.

b789

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2025, 05:24:39 pm »
Where is the original Notice to Keeper (NtK). Anything but the original is irrelevant and useless for providing advice.

Where is the original NtK? What you have shown us are simply reminders for the original NtK for an alleged contravention on 20/06/2025.

As for Trace or any other useless debt recovery letters, you can safely ignore them. Debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and intimidate the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.

For now you can email RCP with the following:

Quote
Subject: Request for Copy of Original Notice to Keeper and Proof of Posting

PCN Ref. No.: [PCN reference No.]
VRM: [car reg no.]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am the registered keeper of vehicle [registration number]. I have recently received correspondence dated 24 July and 11 August 2025 regarding an alleged parking charge, followed by a debt collection letter from TRACE.

I did not receive any original Notice to Keeper for this matter. Please therefore provide me with:
1. A copy of the original Notice to Keeper you allege was issued in respect of this charge.
2. Documentary evidence of the date and method of posting, such as a copy of the Royal Mail certificate of posting or proof of bulk mail posting.

Unless you can provide satisfactory proof of posting, I will deny the presumption of delivery.

For the avoidance of doubt, I will not enter into any discussion with debt recovery agents, who are not a party to any alleged contract. Please ensure all future correspondence is addressed directly to me.

I look forward to your prompt response.

Yours faithfully,

[Full name]
Registered Keeper
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

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houji

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2025, 05:58:03 pm »
Thank you for the prompt replies. I'll ignore Trace and will email RCP tonight using the template provided.

houji

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2025, 04:43:22 pm »
Hello again, RCP have replied to me:

Quote
Good ​morning

Thank you for your email.

Please see attached all three letters sent by RCP Parking Ltd regarding Parking Charge [redacted] along with the Certificate of Postage for each one.

Notice to Keeper sent 26th June 2025
Reminder Notice sent 24th July 2025
Final Demand sent 11th August 2025

Vehicle registration [redacted] was parked at our Rochdale Road car park on 20th June 2025 from 17:30pm to 22:18pm without a valid payment in breach of our Terms & Conditions.  We have searched the PayByPhone system for payments for vehicle registration [redacted] and the nearest payments made to 20th June 2025 were on 13th June 2025 and 24th June 2025.  See below.

As per our Final Demand (sent 11th August 2025) letter our Debt Recovery services are handled by Trace Debt Recovery UK Ltd and this was passed to them on 9th September 2025 following no response to our three letters.

Kind regards

RCP PARKING LTD
13 Diamond Road
Norwich
NR6 6AW
www.rcpparking.com

Here are the NtK images:
NtK-front, NtK-back, NtK-proof-of-posting

So they did post the NtK, but I never received it and there no proof of delivery. I have a couple speculations about what might have happened, but not sure that's helpful or matters.

How should I proceed with respect to the NtK? Thank you in advance.

b789

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2025, 08:23:21 pm »
That hybrid mail receipt is not proof of posting. The “Unity5 Certificate of Postage” is a self-generated record showing that a document was queued for hybrid mail on 26/06/2025 with a 2–3 day service. It is not independent proof that:
• the NtK was actually handed to Royal Mail (or any postal operator) that day;
• the correct full keeper address was used; or
• the item entered a class of post that engages PoFA’s presumption that it was “given” two working days after posting (PoFA Sch 4 para 9(6)).

Courts generally expect something more than a system printout—e.g. a Royal Mail certificate of posting, franking/manifest records, a hybrid-mail audit log evidencing handover to the postal operator (batch ID, acceptance scan), or a witness statement from the mail house exhibiting those business records.

So, this certificate is some evidence of “intended posting”, but it is weak and rebuttable by credible evidence of non-receipt and by pointing out the absence of proof of actual handover and address accuracy.

Can you elaborate on: "I have a couple speculations about what might have happened, but not sure that's helpful or matters."?
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houji

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2025, 01:01:45 pm »
It's evidence of "intended posting", understood.

The next street over has a very similar name to the one I live on, sometimes I get mail for my neighbour with the same house number and vice versa. Wondering if it was delivered to my neighbour instead. I can say with certainty that yesterday was the first time I saw the NtK.


houji

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2025, 02:16:43 pm »
Good afternoon,

So now that we've seen the NtK, what does that mean? Am I, as the registered keeper, liable for their penlty? (I don't really understand how they are able to charge £100 (or £60 reduced).)

b789

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2025, 03:21:35 pm »
You can send the following formal complaint to RCP at rcp@rcpparking.com and CC yourself:

Quote
Subject: Formal complaint – PCN [ref], VRM [VRM], RCP Rochdale Road (20/06/2025)

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am the registered keeper. This is a formal complaint, which the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP) §11.2 requires you to also treat as an appeal. Please place the matter on hold.

1) No delivery of the original NtK – PoFA presumption rebutted (fatal to keeper liability)
Under PoFA 2012 Sch 4 para 9(4)(b) a Notice to Keeper (NtK) must be delivered to the keeper within 14 days of the alleged event. Para 9(5) defines “given” as delivered, and para 9(6) provides a rebuttable presumption that postal delivery occurs on the second working day after posting.

I formally attest that no original NtK was ever received at my address in June/July 2025. The first correspondence found on returning home mid-August was an “overdue” letter dated 24/07/2025, followed by 11/08/2025. Your portal could not locate the PCN, denying any timely appeal.

The “Unity5 hybrid mail certificate” you later supplied is not independent proof of posting or delivery. It merely shows an internal instruction for a “2–3 day” service and does not evidence handover to a postal operator or actual delivery. The “2–3 day” service description itself supports late/failed delivery and therefore assists rebuttal of the para 9(6) presumption.
Accordingly, the statutory requirement that the NtK be delivered within 14 days is not satisfied. Keeper liability cannot arise.

2) Mandatory keeper warning misstated – PoFA 9(2)(f) non-compliance (independent fatality)
Your NtK (dated 26/06/2025) contains conflicting warnings: one paragraph says you may recover “from you”, but another says you may recover “from the driver”. PoFA para 9(2)(f) requires a clear warning that—if the driver is not named—the creditor will have the right to recover the unpaid charge from the keeper. This contradiction is not strict compliance and is independently fatal to keeper liability. I am under no legal obligation to name the driver and I decline to do so.

Outcome required
• Cancel the PCN and confirm in writing; or
• If you disagree, issue a POPLA verification code within 7 days. Under PPSCoP §11.2, this complaint must be treated as an appeal and, if rejected, a POPLA code must be provided.

Please also:
• Recall TRACE and suspend all collection while this complaint/appeal is determined;
• Confirm the case is on hold for at least 28 days;
• If you elect to pursue the driver only, confirm that keeper liability is not asserted and erase my data under UK GDPR Art. 17.

Yours faithfully,

[Keeper’s name]
[Postal address]
[Email]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

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houji

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2025, 06:04:13 pm »
Thank you very much, I'll send that now.

houji

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2025, 11:45:39 am »
They have replied:

Quote
Good morning, [redacted]

Thank you for your email.

Before I upload this and treat it as an appeal, as you request, I notice there are no comments as to why payment for parking was made for [redacted - incorrect VRM] at the Rochdale Road car park on 20th June 2025 that covered parking for 17:30am to 22:18pm.
Please can you provide the circumstances that led to there being no valid payment for parking?

Also, you state that you became aware of this Parking Charge 'mid-August' however you did not contact us regarding it until 30th September 2025 after you had heard from Trace.
Our appeals portal has been active and working through that time so there is no reason you'd not be able to log in to submit an appeal.
Is there any reason you did not contact us via email between receiving the letters 'mid-August' and the Parking Charge being passed to Debt Recovery?

I look forward to hearing about your circumstances that prevented payment on 20th June 2025 so it can be passed onto our appeals team for review.

Kind regards

So they haven't followed either outcome provided. They also mentioned the incorrect VRM in the email.

As far as their questions. I mentioned this in the first post:
1. It's hard to say as the keeper why the payment didn't go through from the driver.
2. I tried their portal and it couldn't find the PCN (maybe cause it had gone to debt recovery by this point?)

b789

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2025, 11:04:41 pm »
Respond with the following:

Quote
Subject: Formal complaint & appeal – PCN [ref], VRM [VRM]

For the personal attention of the Appeals Manager

Dear RCP Parking Ltd,

Your email is noted. You appear to be under the misapprehension that I am obliged to justify my personal circumstances or enter into a discussion about the driver or payment. Allow me to clarify your position.

I am the registered keeper, not the driver. My correspondence is a formal complaint, which under PPSCoP §11.2 must be treated as an appeal. You are legally required to either cancel the charge or issue a POPLA verification code if you disagree. You are not entitled to interrogate me about matters that are irrelevant to keeper liability under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4).

The question of why or when I contacted you is none of your concern. What matters is that:

1. No Notice to Keeper was ever delivered.
•Your “Unity5 hybrid mail” printout does not prove posting, delivery, or even correct addressing. It refers to a 2–3 day service, inconsistent with first-class post and therefore insufficient to rely on PoFA’s presumption of delivery. •The statutory 14-day delivery requirement in para 9(4)(b) was not met, so keeper liability fails at the first hurdle.

2. Your NtK is not PoFA-compliant anyway.

It contains contradictory warnings — one line referring to recovery from “you”, another referring to recovery “from the driver”. That is not the wording required by para 9(2)(f), which demands a clear warning that recovery will be from the keeper. Non-compliance is fatal.

3. Your debt collector’s involvement is wholly improper.
While this complaint/appeal remains unresolved, continued processing or pursuit by TRACE constitutes a breach of both the PPSCoP and the UK GDPR. The account must be placed on hold immediately.

So, here are your only two options:

1. Cancel the charge forthwith; or

2. Issue a POPLA verification code and confirm the matter is on hold for the statutory 28 days.

Anything else will be treated as a breach of the PPSCoP and reported to the BPA AOS Investigations Team and the DVLA Data Sharing Policy Group.

Yours faithfully
,
[Keeper’s full name]
Registered Keeper of [VRM]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

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houji

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Re: RCP PCN - No Permit - Debt Collection Letter
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2025, 09:32:19 am »
Thank you, I'll do that now.