Author Topic: PCN Chester Private Car Park  (Read 4155 times)

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DWMB2

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2025, 04:16:54 pm »
4. Enforcement for parking contraventions at this car site is undertaken by POs who use a Hand Held Terminal (HHT) to record details of any vehicle and its registration number, which may be parked in contravention of the advertised Terms & Conditions. Those images and other relevant information are uploaded in real time to a secure portal, where the information is reviewed. No formal Parking Charge Notice is affixed to the vehicle; instead, a Notice to Keeper is subsequently issued by post, this practice falls in line with the process and procedures as per site management using ANPR technology.

APP: Enforcement for parking is solely in line with the AST.
I'd change the wording of this - it could be read as you saying you agree that the parking company's enforcement procedures are in line with your AST.

7. Both the period of observation by the PO and our photographic evidence comply with the Single Code of Practice.

APP: Need help on how to respond to this point? Do they comply with the Single Coe of Practice?
Did you dispute this in your appeal? If not, I'd say it isn't relevant. If you did, then take a look at the Code of Practice and see what it says on evidence and observation periods.

3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2025, 04:22:23 pm »
Thanks for your prompt response, I will change point 4, ref point 7,  I used the appeal that b789 kindly supplied

Quote
Grounds of Appeal:

1. No Valid Contract – Pre-Existing Parking Rights Granted by Tenancy Agreement

The Appellant is the lawful residential tenant of the property associated with the parking space in question. An Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement (AST) grants the Appellant an express and exclusive right to use an allocated parking space. The AST does not contain any clause requiring the display of a permit, nor does it incorporate or acknowledge the signage, terms, or scheme operated by the parking company.

The Appellant's rights under the tenancy agreement override any alleged third-party terms displayed on signs. The operator is put to strict proof that their signage terms can override an existing contractual right of quiet enjoyment and exclusive use, and that any such signage forms part of the tenant's agreed obligations.

2. No Evidence of Contravention – Permit Displayed / Not Required

The operator has not shown that any contravention occurred. The vehicle was parked in the Appellant’s allocated space. A valid permit was present on the dashboard at the time, although the operator’s photograph is inconclusive. In any event, the AST grants an unqualified right to park, and the display of a permit has always been a courtesy, not a condition. There is no breach of any enforceable term.

3. No Standing to Enforce – No Evidence of a Valid Landowner Contract

The Appellant puts the operator to strict proof that they hold a valid, contemporaneous, and unredacted contract with the landowner, not a managing agent, which:

• Grants them authority to enter into contracts with drivers;
• Permits them to issue Parking Charge Notices (or Penalty Notices, as described on the NtK);
• Allows enforcement on residential tenant-controlled spaces.

A copy of the superior lease (if any) is not binding on the Appellant unless it has been incorporated into the AST and provided to the tenant, which it has not.

If the operator cannot produce such a contract, their authority to operate at this site is in serious doubt.

4. Failure to Establish Keeper Liability under PoFA 2012

The Notice to Keeper fails to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(a), because it does not specify the required “period of parking.” A single timestamp is not a period. This failure invalidates any attempt to transfer liability from the unknown driver to the registered keeper. If the assessor is indeed a solicitor or a barrister they should be familiar with the persuasive appeal decision in Scott Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions Ltd (2023) [H6DP632H].

Furthermore, the operator has not shown that the vehicle was parked for longer than the minimum consideration period required under the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (Section 5.1). No contract could have been formed without first allowing the driver an opportunity to review and accept the terms.

Conclusion

The Appellant denies any contractual liability and invites the assessor to require the operator to either:

• Provide the unredacted landowner contract showing their lawful authority to issue charges at residential properties, including over spaces subject to tenancy rights;
• Acknowledge that the alleged breach is unsupported by evidence and withdraw the charge.

Should this appeal be dismissed, the Appellant will consider the matter closed and will not engage further outside of formal litigation. Any claim will be defended robustly and with full reliance on tenancy rights, evidential deficiencies, and operator misconduct.

b789

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2025, 05:11:24 pm »
You've covered the points very well. However, I think there may be a character limit for the rebuttal and I'd suggest you submit your response as follows:

Quote
APPELLANT REBUTTAL TO VCS OPERATOR EVIDENCE

This rebuttal responds concisely to each of VCS's points, which are largely repetitive, legally flawed, and ignore fundamental principles of land law and contract. For ease of reference, the operator’s assertions are addressed by number.

1, 2, 3, 9, 12, 13 – Signage and Alleged Contract
The Appellant is the lawful residential tenant of the flat associated with the parking bay in question. Their Assured Shorthold Tenancy (AST) grants an exclusive right to use the allocated parking space. The tenancy agreement contains no clause requiring a permit, nor does it incorporate or reference any third-party scheme. It overrides any alleged contract based on signage. VCS is a stranger to the AST and cannot impose new terms on the Appellant's use of land they already have rights over. This is settled legal principle: a third party cannot override superior rights held under a lease.

4 – Enforcement Method
Irrelevant. The Appellant's rights to park derive from the AST. Any purported “enforcement” is ultra vires where a pre-existing right to park applies.

5 & 6 – Observations and Photographs
The Appellant’s vehicle was parked in their own allocated bay, and a permit was displayed (as a courtesy, not as a requirement). The operator’s photos do not prove otherwise and were taken from a distance that does not fairly evidence the dashboard. Regardless, no contravention can exist where no contractual obligation applies.

7 – Compliance with the Single Code of Practice
The Single Code of Practice requires a minimum consideration period before a contract can be formed. The Appellant was parked in their own bay with a right to do so, so no consideration period is applicable. However, the operator has not shown that the vehicle remained on site beyond that minimum, nor that any signage was capable of forming a binding contract. The claim fails on both formation and standing.

8 – Keeper Liability under PoFA
The Notice to Keeper fails to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(a) because it does not specify any period of parking. A timestamp is not a period. If the assessor is, as claimed, a solicitor or barrister, they will be familiar with the persuasive decision in Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions Ltd (2023) [H6DP632H], which confirmed that PoFA requires an actual duration of parking, not a mere moment in time.

Furthermore, even if PoFA had been complied with (which it has not), the Appellant’s tenancy grants them a primary and exclusive right to park in their space. No third-party operator can override that right. The land may be “relevant” under PoFA, but keeper liability is void where the underlying right to park already exists independently of the operator's scheme.

10 – Operator Contract
The Appellant put VCS to strict proof that their authority to manage parking on the site includes the legal right to override a residential tenancy agreement and impose terms on tenants. The operator's claim to possess a landowner contract is not enough; they must show how their terms were incorporated into the Appellant's lease, which they have not done.

11 – 24-Hour Helpline
Irrelevant. The Appellant has no need to call a helpline to confirm the scope of their own tenancy agreement, which already includes a right to park.

Conclusion
This charge is fundamentally flawed. VCS has failed to establish any binding contract with the Appellant, has no standing to override tenancy rights, and has issued a Notice to Keeper that does not meet the statutory requirements of PoFA. The appeal must be upheld.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

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3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2025, 11:21:56 pm »
Thank you so much for this, I have submitted it, interestingly their website would not allow a copy/paste function so I typed out the response. I guess that is another way to discourage appeals.

3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2025, 01:41:53 pm »
So VCS have responded as follows:

Quote
1. The time and date contravention photographs clearly show that at the time observation by the PO no valid permit was displayed in the windscreen of the appellant's vehicle, as per the clearly advertised contractual terms and conditions of parking.

2. A person can enter into a contract either by expressly agreeing to do so or by acting in such a way that they can be said to have implied agreement to enter into a contract. Where notice is given to a motorist of the consequences of parking in a particular area, by implications a motorist enters into a contract with VCS and accepts the terms set out in the Notice by proceeding to park. The appellant's residency of an adjacent property did not nullify their only park in compliance of the terms and conditions.

3. The NTK complies with the POFA 2012. The PCN was issued for a parking period related contravention; it was issued for the contravention parking without displaying a valid permit.

Should I respond to this by emphasising my above points made previously, as theirs just seem to be repetitive?

jfollows

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2025, 02:09:46 pm »
The question is, which of their points - if any - introduces something new?

I’d say their point (2) is laughably wrong, the fact that you displayed a permit that you were not required to display in no way meant that somehow fell into a contract with them. A contract has to offer something, and a notice which offers something you already have is utterly irrelevant and of course you didn’t contract with them because you parked in your own space.

I feel that could be worded better, but I feel that their utter nonsense needs to be torpedoed.

(1) & (3) are probably irrelevant as you say.

b789

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2025, 04:46:14 pm »
You can respond with the following:

Quote
Appellant's Rebuttal to Operator's Comments

1. No Permit Displayed

The Appellant is the lawful residential tenant of the space in question, with a tenancy that grants exclusive use of the parking bay. There is no requirement in the tenancy agreement to display a permit, and any prior display was purely out of courtesy. VCS is not a party to that tenancy and cannot unilaterally impose terms upon a resident’s demised property. The Appellant’s right to park derives from a superior interest in land and cannot be fettered by VCS signage.

2. Implied Agreement & Contract

A resident cannot be said to enter into a new contract for something they already possess via their tenancy—namely, the exclusive right to park. There is no consideration and no contractual intention. The signage is irrelevant to the Appellant’s rights, and any such attempt by VCS to override a pre-existing tenancy fails at law. Forcing a resident to ‘agree’ to new third-party terms is legally incoherent and a well-rehearsed fiction in such residential contexts.

3. PoFA Compliance

The Notice to Keeper fails to comply with PoFA Schedule 4, paragraph 9(2)(a), as it does not state any “period of parking”. A single timestamp is not a period. This failure alone invalidates any attempt to hold the Keeper liable. If the adjudicator is indeed a qualified solicitor or barrister—as claimed by the IAS—they should be familiar with the persuasive appellate ruling in Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions Ltd (2023) [H6DP632H], in which the judge confirmed that a specific period of parking is mandatory for PoFA compliance. VCS has provided no such period, only a single observation time.

4. Consideration Period Absent – No Contract Formed

The Appellant reiterates that under Section 5.1 of the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice, a motorist must be afforded a minimum consideration period of at least 5 minutes to review the displayed terms before any contract can be formed. This is not optional—it is a binding requirement under the Code of Practice. A contract cannot be formed merely by conduct in the absence of clear evidence that the driver had a fair opportunity to seek out, read and accept the terms. The operator has produced only a single timestamp, which fails to evidence any period of parking and does not demonstrate that a consideration period took place. If the assessor is legally qualified, as claimed, they will recognise that the absence of a consideration period is fatal to any claim of contractual formation, and therefore the charge is unenforceable.
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3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2025, 06:40:13 pm »
Thanks once again, rebuttal sent, this time as a PDF attachment as copy/paste function is still disabled.
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3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2025, 01:16:21 pm »
A further response from VCS, it seems to be a battle of attrition where they keep repeating same/similar statements.

Apologies from me, as I did not notice the photos they had shared (attached), do these prove their point 2?  :(

Quote
1. We note that parking operators are entitled to up to six months from the date of a parking event in order to lawfully request keeper details from the DVLA for the purposes of lawfully issuing a charge, and subsequently up to six years to pursue the outstanding sum of this charge. We have adhered to this timescale.

2. The supplied contravention photographs are time and date stamped and confirm that the appellant's vehicle was observed in situ for 11 minutes and 39 seconds before the PCN was issued. This was a fair and reasonable period.



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b789

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2025, 06:02:22 pm »
Not that the IAS will do anything but... the NtK does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) because it fails to specify the required period of parking. A single timestamp is not a period of parking. The law requires the NtK to clearly state the actual period the vehicle was parked, not just one moment in time.

The operator cannot fix this failure by later submitting timestamped photos to the IAS. PoFA compliance is assessed based on what is written in the NtK itself, not on what is added later during an appeal.

Even if the vehicle was present for 11 minutes and 36 seconds, that is irrelevant if the NtK does not mention this as a defined period. Without a compliant NtK, the operator cannot transfer liability to the keeper.

The IAS response about DVLA access and six-year time limits has nothing to do with this. The issue is whether the NtK allows them to hold the keeper liable. It does not. Only the driver could be liable, and the operator would need to prove who that was.

Were these photos available to you when you appealed? It still does not make the NtK PoFA-compliant.

The NtK itself must explicitly state the period of parking. It is not enough for this information to be available somewhere else, even if the photos were accessible online at the time. The legal requirement is clear: the notice must contain the information, not just link to or imply it.

You ay want to respond to the operators evidence with the above information, explaining in detail, that if the supposedly legally trained IAS assessor cannot understand the difference between evidential timestamped photos held elsewhere, does not change the fact that the NtK is still not compliant with PoFA, then you won't worry too much because the operator can go waste their money in litigation where they will receive another of their regular court spankings, where a knowledgeable defendant highlights their attempts at extortion.
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3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2025, 06:09:50 pm »
Thanks for this, I will respond with this information. It seems the photos were there and accessible online all along, I didn't notice them, however as you state they are not written in the NtK.
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b789

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2025, 06:44:13 pm »
Don't feel that you need to be overly polite to the IAS assessor. Remember, they are not trying to find Ian your favour. Their sole reason d'être is to protect the IPC members interests.

Suggesting that the IAS assessor should know better, is a useful barb to prick what limited conscience they have.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

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3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2025, 10:33:34 pm »
Thanks, sent my rebuttal, let's see what nonsense I get back.

3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2025, 01:16:56 pm »
As expected, IAS dismissed my appeal, I guess I just wait for the LoC now? I am a little nervous about their responses, do they have a case or is it a load of 'waffle'?

Quote
"The Appellant should understand that the Adjudicator is not in a position to give legal advice to either of the parties but they are entitled to seek their own independent legal advice. The Adjudicator's role is to consider whether or not the parking charge has a basis in law and was properly issued in the circumstances of each individual case. In all Appeals the Adjudicator is bound by the relevant law applicable at the time and is only able to consider legal challenges and not factual mistakes nor extenuating or mitigating circumstances. Throughout this appeal the Operator has had the opportunity consider all points raised and could have conceded the appeal at any stage. The Adjudicator who deals with this Appeal is legally qualified and each case is dealt with according to their understanding of the law as it applies and the legal principles involved. A decision by an Adjudicator is not legally binding on an Appellant who is entitled to seek their own legal advice if they so wish.

I am satisfied from the Landowner Authority documents provided that the Appellant was parked in an area where the Operator has authority to issue Parking Charge Notices and to take the necessary steps to enforce them.

Images, including a site map have been provided to me by the Operator which shows the signage displayed on this site. After viewing those images I am satisfied that the signage is sufficient to have brought to the attention of the Appellant the terms and conditions that apply to parking on this site.

The terms and conditions of parking at this location are such that drivers must clearly display a valid permit in the front windscreen of their vehicle with all of the details clearly visible at all times. In the photographs provided to me it is clear that no such permit was displayed. The Appellant's contention that the permit was displayed and could have been seen had the parking attendant got closer to the vehicle is not accepted as the photographs clearly show that this is not the case. The Appellant's own image shows no permit on display with all details visible as required by the signage. It is the driver's responsibility to ensure that they clearly display a valid permit and otherwise conform with the terms and conditions of the Operator's signage displayed at this site. The Appellant claims to have rights under their tenancy agreement but provides no documentary evidence of any such rights. Even if a right to park exists without sight of the documents setting out such a right, I cannot be satisfied that they are not restricted by other provisions. Even if the Appellant does have an unrestricted right to park in their tenancy agreement, I am unable to allow the appeal on this basis. The Appellant is correct that a right in a lease would ordinarily have primacy, and the Operator could not unilaterally override this. however, by agreeing to display a permit (which the Appellant states he was doing at the time of the parking event), and take part in the car park management scheme, the Appellant has waived any rights they had to park without restriction. The Appellant cannot take advantage of the scheme when it benefits them and disregard it when it does not. As a genuine permit holder the Appellant has my sympathy, but the guidance to appeal is clear that I may only consider legal issues not mitigating or extenuating circumstances. The Appellant's argument that the NTK does not comply with PoFA is also not accepted. The time and date stamped photographs show different times on them and therefore show a period of parking and as the Operator states the Operator is only required to show that no permit was displayed not a period of parking such as where the PCN relates to a period of unpaid parking. As such, on the basis of the evidence provided I am satisfied that the Appellant was parked in breach of the displayed terms and conditions and that the PCN was correctly issued on this occasion.

I have considered all the issues raised by both parties in this Appeal and I am satisfied that the Operator has established that the Parking Charge Notice was properly issued in accordance with the law and therefore this Appeal is dismissed.
"

b789

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2025, 01:42:42 pm »
As you can see, the IAS appeal decision is not just flawed—it’s a complete mockery. It pretends to be a fair and impartial process, but in reality, it’s a sham designed to rubber-stamp whatever the parking operator says.

First, the so-called adjudicator doesn’t even have the courage to put their name on the decision. That alone tells you everything you need to know about the credibility of this process. If they were truly legally trained and confident in their reasoning, why hide behind anonymity? Even in the most basic legal settings, decisions are signed. Here, it’s just a faceless pleb making unchallengeable rulings.

Worse still, the appellant is denied access to the very evidence the adjudicator claims to have reviewed. The operator’s contract, the supposed landowner authority, and the site map are all mentioned—but never shown. The operator gets to see everything the appellant submits, but the appellant isn’t allowed to see the evidence used against them. That’s not adjudication. That’s exactly like a secret trial. Even authoritarian regimes often give the accused more rights than this.

The legal reasoning is laughable. The adjudicator admits that leasehold rights would normally override parking signs, but then claims that by displaying a permit, the appellant somehow gave up those rights. That’s nonsense. You can’t waive a legal right just by trying to comply with a system forced on you. It’s like saying if you pay a ransom, you’ve agreed to be kidnapped.

The double standards are glaringly obvious. The appellant is criticised for not providing a full tenancy agreement, but the operator’s so-called landowner authority is accepted without question. No scrutiny, no transparency. Just blind acceptance of whatever the operator says.

The adjudicator also brushes off the argument about PoFA compliance with barely a sentence. They claim the operator only needs to show that no permit was displayed, not a period of parking. That’s simply wrong. PoFA has strict requirements, and they’ve been completely ignored here.

This isn’t an appeal process. It’s a performance. A show. A fake process designed to look fair while always siding with the operator. The IAS is not a real tribunal. It’s a private complaints handler funded by the very companies it’s supposed to oversee. Its decisions aren’t binding, they aren’t transparent, and they certainly aren’t credible.

Honestly, a trial in North Korea would offer more rights than this. At least there, you’d know who your judge is.

Stop worrying. They absolutely do not "have a case". This will never see the inside of a courtroom. Just ignore all the debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out go ignorance and fear.

Come back when you get a Letter of Claim (LoC).
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