Author Topic: PCN Chester Private Car Park  (Read 4155 times)

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jfollows

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2025, 02:52:56 pm »
See reply #2 above, VCS won’t give up before taking this to court, that was always expected. I would ignore their latest load of rubbish and wait for them to get on with their threats.
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3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2025, 02:16:32 pm »
I received an email from VCS today to either pay or appeal to the IAS, having read about them on this forum it seems to be waste of effort and time as they nearly always side with the parking operator.

Would it be wise to just sit back and wait for the 'Letter of Claim' from their appointed solicitor?
« Last Edit: June 05, 2025, 02:19:48 pm by 3Sh3roo »

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2025, 02:17:43 pm »
Yes
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b789

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2025, 04:38:20 pm »
I received an email from VCS today to either pay or appeal to the IAS, having read about them on this forum it seems to be waste of effort and time as they nearly always side with the parking operator.

Would it be wise to just sit back and wait for the 'Letter of Claim' from their appointed solicitor?

That's what we normally do but considering that it costs the operator whether they win or lose an IAS appeal to send one anyway. The only way they don't pay anything is if they concede the appeal.

Just use the following as your IAS appeal:

Quote
Grounds of Appeal:

1. No Valid Contract – Pre-Existing Parking Rights Granted by Tenancy Agreement

The Appellant is the lawful residential tenant of the property associated with the parking space in question. An Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement (AST) grants the Appellant an express and exclusive right to use an allocated parking space. The AST does not contain any clause requiring the display of a permit, nor does it incorporate or acknowledge the signage, terms, or scheme operated by the parking company.

The Appellant's rights under the tenancy agreement override any alleged third-party terms displayed on signs. The operator is put to strict proof that their signage terms can override an existing contractual right of quiet enjoyment and exclusive use, and that any such signage forms part of the tenant's agreed obligations.

2. No Evidence of Contravention – Permit Displayed / Not Required

The operator has not shown that any contravention occurred. The vehicle was parked in the Appellant’s allocated space. A valid permit was present on the dashboard at the time, although the operator’s photograph is inconclusive. In any event, the AST grants an unqualified right to park, and the display of a permit has always been a courtesy, not a condition. There is no breach of any enforceable term.

3. No Standing to Enforce – No Evidence of a Valid Landowner Contract

The Appellant puts the operator to strict proof that they hold a valid, contemporaneous, and unredacted contract with the landowner, not a managing agent, which:

• Grants them authority to enter into contracts with drivers;
• Permits them to issue Parking Charge Notices (or Penalty Notices, as described on the NtK);
• Allows enforcement on residential tenant-controlled spaces.

A copy of the superior lease (if any) is not binding on the Appellant unless it has been incorporated into the AST and provided to the tenant, which it has not.

If the operator cannot produce such a contract, their authority to operate at this site is in serious doubt.

4. Failure to Establish Keeper Liability under PoFA 2012

The Notice to Keeper fails to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(a), because it does not specify the required “period of parking.” A single timestamp is not a period. This failure invalidates any attempt to transfer liability from the unknown driver to the registered keeper. If the assessor is indeed a solicitor or a barrister they should be familiar with the persuasive appeal decision in Scott Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions Ltd (2023) [H6DP632H].

Furthermore, the operator has not shown that the vehicle was parked for longer than the minimum consideration period required under the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (Section 5.1). No contract could have been formed without first allowing the driver an opportunity to review and accept the terms.

Conclusion

The Appellant denies any contractual liability and invites the assessor to require the operator to either:

• Provide the unredacted landowner contract showing their lawful authority to issue charges at residential properties, including over spaces subject to tenancy rights;
• Acknowledge that the alleged breach is unsupported by evidence and withdraw the charge.

Should this appeal be dismissed, the Appellant will consider the matter closed and will not engage further outside of formal litigation. Any claim will be defended robustly and with full reliance on tenancy rights, evidential deficiencies, and operator misconduct.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Away until at least 10th November. Limited access and there may be delays to any questions with ongoing cases.

3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2025, 05:52:58 pm »
Thanks filling in the IAS form now, it asks if I am being held liable for the charge with an option to select 'yes' or 'no', I guess it's a 'yes'? The rest are clear...

DWMB2

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2025, 05:57:29 pm »
Can you please show us the exact wording of the question to which you are referring?

3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2025, 06:00:04 pm »
Please see screenshot below:

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« Last Edit: June 05, 2025, 06:18:12 pm by 3Sh3roo »

3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2025, 06:40:39 pm »
Next page is as follows if I select I am being held liable:

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3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2025, 02:30:38 pm »
For completeness, I've selected I am being held liable, as VCS are attempting to go after me as the registered keeper.


3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2025, 02:33:06 pm »
After appealing on IAS website, VCS have responded as below, it would be appreciated if you could advise what response I should give to this? I don't really have much hope of IAS being impartial (as read previously) but I guess 'nothing ventured....'.


Quote

The operator made their Prima Facie Case on 11/06/2025 13:41:45.

The operator reported that...
The appellant was the keeper.
The operator is seeking keeper liability in accordance with PoFA..
The Notice to Keeper (Non-ANPR) was sent on 24/04/2025.
The ticket was issued on 24/04/2025.
The charge is based in Contract.

The operator made the following comments...
1. The Sxxxxx Cxxxx Residential Car Park is private land and motorists are allowed to park their vehicle provided that they abide by any displayed conditions of parking.

2. The signage on site states, ‘Parking is strictly reserved for valid parking permit holders Only' and ‘A valid parking permit must be displayed inside the front windscreen of the vehicle with all details clearly visible at all times.' The signage makes it clear that anyone observed to be in contravention of these Terms and Conditions will become liable for a PCN.

3. Site photos supplied show that the signage can be seen throughout the car park. The adjudicator will note that the VCS signage onsite, including its wording and positioning has been audited by the IPC, has passed audit, complies with the IPC Code of Practice and is deemed fit for purpose.

4. Enforcement for parking contraventions at this car site is undertaken by POs who use a Hand Held Terminal (HHT) to record details of any vehicle and its registration number, which may be parked in contravention of the advertised Terms & Conditions. Those images and other relevant information are uploaded in real time to a secure portal, where the information is reviewed. No formal Parking Charge Notice is affixed to the vehicle; instead, a Notice to Keeper is subsequently issued by post, this practice falls in line with the process and procedures as per site management using ANPR technology.

5. The Patrol Officer (PO) observed the appellant's vehicle in situ for 11 minutes and 39 seconds and when digitally recording the contravention the PO noted ‘Vehicle not displaying a valid parking permit.'

6. The contravention photographs supplied, which are time and date stamped corroborate the PO's observations, clearly show that no valid permit was displayed in the windscreen of the vehicle and highlight the proximity of the vehicle to contractual VCS signage.

7. Both the period of observation by the PO and our photographic evidence comply with the Single Code of Practice.

8. As registered keeper, we are holding the appellant liable for the Charge Notice under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, details of which where explained in the formal Notice sent on 24/04/2025. We note that the appellant has also declined to name the driver of their vehicle at the time of the incident in question. It is important that we make the adjudicator aware that we will rely on the keeper liability provisions within Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) and as such, do not require those details.

9. The contract between the appellant and VCS was formed when the motorist entered the car park. When entering this private land, a motorist freely enters into an agreement to abide by the conditions advertised in return for permission to enter. It is the motorist's responsibility to ensure that they abide by any clearly displayed terms and conditions. It is clear that the terms and conditions stated that vehicles must clearly display valid permit otherwise the motorist would face liability for a Charge Notice.

10. A copy of our authority to manage parking on this site, including where the appellant parked their vehicle was supplied as part of the IPC audit process and is available solely to the Adjudicator for their perusal.

11. A helpline telephone number (open 24 hours per day) is clearly displayed on all EPS signage for any motorist experiencing difficulty or who has any questions or concerns. This was not utilised by the appellant. If the terms and conditions were in any way unclear to the appellant, or they were unsure if they applied to them, they had the option of contacting us for advice.

12. The appellant has presented no evidence of either possessing a valid permit or of residency of an adjacent Signal Court property. However such evidence would not nullify the facts of their contravention or their liability for the charge. The terms and conditions for parking on this private land are clearly advertised by the signage on site.

13. The appellant became liable for a Charge Notice as per the Terms and Conditions displayed by parking without displaying a valid permit.


jfollows

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2025, 03:39:00 pm »
Go through this and counter every point that’s wrong, eg
1. Tenants have the right to use allocated parking spaces according to their lease agreements, which do not require the display of a permit or compliance with signs erected by a third party, VCS
2. Signage is irrelevant, VCS is not a party in the tenancy agreement and can not impose terms and conditions on parking
3. Signage is irrelevant
4. Enforcement is solely according to the leases and their terms and conditions
5. The Patrol Officer is irrelevant
….
8. Notwithstanding the irrelevance of VCS, the notice issued does not comply with PoFA because ….
9. VCS can not contract with a motorist when the motorist already has the right to use the parking spaces according because of the lease
10. VCS needs to demonstrate how its “authority” to manage parking has been incorporated into the residents’ leases
….
12.


etc.

That is not a good reply, but you can do better and ensure that no points remain unchallenged. If you are serious about the IAS, that is. Otherwise, don’t bother, let them take you to court where you’ll win.




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3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2025, 08:04:28 pm »
I'm leaning towards just leaving it as I'm not sure it's worth the hassle if they will find in favour of VCS, or should I take some time out and cover each point?

DWMB2

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2025, 10:37:02 pm »
Your call as it's your time and effort.

jfollows

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2025, 06:33:38 am »
I'm leaning towards just leaving it as I'm not sure it's worth the hassle if they will find in favour of VCS, or should I take some time out and cover each point?
If you leave it, you’re going to have to write a defence to the inevitable claim, but if you spend the time now it will be the majority of your defence in due course when/if the IAS doesn’t uphold your appeal, so I think it’s a case of do it now or do it later anyway.

And if the IAS does uphold your appeal, you’ve saved yourself a lot of paperwork hassle.

But it’s your effort and your choice of course!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2025, 07:45:31 am by jfollows »

3Sh3roo

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Re: PCN Chester Private Car Park
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2025, 04:08:25 pm »
Thanks for all the guidance, I've put together the following responses, mainly be referring to previous advice from you good folk. I am not very experienced at this and do need help on point 7, also can you please advise if my responses are on point?

1. The Sxxxxx Cxxxx Residential Car Park is private land and motorists are allowed to park their vehicle provided that they abide by any displayed conditions of parking.

APP: Once again, The Appellant is the lawful residential tenant of the property associated with the parking space in question. An Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreement (AST) grants the Appellant an express and exclusive right to use an allocated parking space. The AST does not contain any clause requiring the display of a permit, nor does it incorporate or acknowledge the signage, terms, or scheme operated by the parking company. The Appellant's rights under the tenancy agreement override any alleged third-party terms displayed on signs. The operator is put to strict proof that their signage terms can override an existing contractual right of quiet enjoyment and exclusive use, and that any such signage forms part of the tenant's agreed obligations.


2. The signage on site states, ‘Parking is strictly reserved for valid parking permit holders Only' and ‘A valid parking permit must be displayed inside the front windscreen of the vehicle with all details clearly visible at all times.' The signage makes it clear that anyone observed to be in contravention of these Terms and Conditions will become liable for a PCN.

APP: Signage is irrelevant, VCS is not a party in the AST and therefore cannot impose terms and conditions on parking.

3. Site photos supplied show that the signage can be seen throughout the car park. The adjudicator will note that the VCS signage onsite, including its wording and positioning has been audited by the IPC, has passed audit, complies with the IPC Code of Practice and is deemed fit for purpose.

APP: Once again, signage is irrelevant as VCS are not a party in the AST

4. Enforcement for parking contraventions at this car site is undertaken by POs who use a Hand Held Terminal (HHT) to record details of any vehicle and its registration number, which may be parked in contravention of the advertised Terms & Conditions. Those images and other relevant information are uploaded in real time to a secure portal, where the information is reviewed. No formal Parking Charge Notice is affixed to the vehicle; instead, a Notice to Keeper is subsequently issued by post, this practice falls in line with the process and procedures as per site management using ANPR technology.

APP: Enforcement for parking is solely in line with the AST.

5. The Patrol Officer (PO) observed the appellant's vehicle in situ for 11 minutes and 39 seconds and when digitally recording the contravention the PO noted ‘Vehicle not displaying a valid parking permit.'

APP: The operator has not shown that any contravention occurred. The vehicle was parked in the Appellant's allocated space. A valid permit was present on the dashboard at the time, although the operator's photograph is inconclusive. In any event, the AST grants an unqualified right to park, and the display of a permit has always been a courtesy, not a condition. There is no breach of any enforceable term.

6. The contravention photographs supplied, which are time and date stamped corroborate the PO's observations, clearly show that no valid permit was displayed in the windscreen of the vehicle and highlight the proximity of the vehicle to contractual VCS signage.

APP: As the photos were taken from a distance, they do not show the missing permit which is always present in the car as a courtesy, further there are no signs.

7. Both the period of observation by the PO and our photographic evidence comply with the Single Code of Practice.

APP: Need help on how to respond to this point? Do they comply with the Single Coe of Practice?

8. As registered keeper, we are holding the appellant liable for the Charge Notice under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, details of which where explained in the formal Notice sent on 24/04/2025. We note that the appellant has also declined to name the driver of their vehicle at the time of the incident in question. It is important that we make the adjudicator aware that we will rely on the keeper liability provisions within Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) and as such, do not require those details.

APP: The Notice to Keeper fails to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(a), because it does not specify the required “period of parking.” A single timestamp is not a period. This failure invalidates any attempt to transfer liability from the unknown driver to the registered keeper. If the assessor is indeed a solicitor or a barrister they should be familiar with the persuasive appeal decision in Scott Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions Ltd (2023) [H6DP632H].

Furthermore, the operator has not shown that the vehicle was parked for longer than the minimum consideration period required under the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (Section 5.1). No contract could have been formed without first allowing the driver an opportunity to review and accept the terms.



9. The contract between the appellant and VCS was formed when the motorist entered the car park. When entering this private land, a motorist freely enters into an agreement to abide by the conditions advertised in return for permission to enter. It is the motorist's responsibility to ensure that they abide by any clearly displayed terms and conditions. It is clear that the terms and conditions stated that vehicles must clearly display valid permit otherwise the motorist would face liability for a Charge Notice.

APP: VCS cannot form a contract with the appellant as the appellant has an AST in place granting them rights to park in their allocated space without the need of a valid permit.

10. A copy of our authority to manage parking on this site, including where the appellant parked their vehicle was supplied as part of the IPC audit process and is available solely to the Adjudicator for their perusal.

APP: VCS needs to demonstrate how its “authority” to manage parking has been incorporated into the residents’ AST

11. A helpline telephone number (open 24 hours per day) is clearly displayed on all EPS signage for any motorist experiencing difficulty or who has any questions or concerns. This was not utilised by the appellant. If the terms and conditions were in any way unclear to the appellant, or they were unsure if they applied to them, they had the option of contacting us for advice.

APP: As an existing AST is in place which allows the appellant to park in their allocated space, using this number is completely unnecessary and irrelevant.

12. The appellant has presented no evidence of either possessing a valid permit or of residency of an adjacent Signal Court property. However such evidence would not nullify the facts of their contravention or their liability for the charge. The terms and conditions for parking on this private land are clearly advertised by the signage on site.

APP: A valid permit, though not necessary, is always on display on the vehicle, no evidence was requested to show this permit, if it was requested it a copy of it would have been presented to VCS.

13. The appellant became liable for a Charge Notice as per the Terms and Conditions displayed by parking without displaying a valid permit.

APP: Once again, as the appellant has an AST in place for their allocated space a valid permit is not needed.