Author Topic: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park  (Read 6274 times)

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willowweb

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MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« on: August 06, 2025, 03:59:18 pm »
My daughter and her friend parked at Southgate Stansted for 25 minutes.  They paid on the way out as apparently they could not leave the car park without paying, yet this PCN has been issued.  They cannot remember exactly where they parked (eg if it was outside Mcdonalds, Starbucks, or elsewhere) but from what I can tell, there is at least 30 minutes free parking wherever they parked at this car park.  I haven't seen anyone else refer to being required to pay at the exit, however.  Can you advise how to challenge this please?

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jfollows

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2025, 04:06:53 pm »
Don’t identify the driver, and the statement about the right to recover from the registered keeper is untrue because this is not ‘relevant land’ for the purposes of the legislation.

There are many appeals here on this basis.

MET will dismiss the appeal, but provide a POPLA code which can be used with a more detailed appeal to find in your favour.

jfollows

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2025, 04:10:25 pm »
However, surely the PCN identifies the precise location?

https://www.streetmap.co.uk/map/idld?x=554831&y=222055&z=110&sv=554831,222055&st=4&mapp=map%5BFS%5Didld&searchp=ids&dn=651&ax=554831&ay=222055&lm=0 shows it to be within the airport boundary based on the postcode in the notice.

I attach a map of the airport boundary from one of the other posts here.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2025, 04:21:01 pm by jfollows »

b789

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2025, 04:33:43 pm »
Easy one to deal with… as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The location is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA, which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the registered keeper. MET cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, MET will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Stansted Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Stansted Airport wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because MET is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for MET's own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and MET has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. MET have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Come back when they reject that for your POPLA appeal.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

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willowweb

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2025, 04:36:55 pm »
Thank you I will send this and wait for their POPLA code

willowweb

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2025, 04:37:51 pm »
sorry, one more question.  I am doing this on behalf of the registered keeper.  Is it ok to send it from my email address or does it have to be from the keeper's?

b789

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2025, 04:39:37 pm »
You can send it from any email address you like. Why would you ask? As long as you can receive replies to the email address you use, it matters not.

However, if you are doing this on behalf of the Keeper, everything must be done in the name of the keeper. DO NOT try and do anything as someone "on behalf of the Keeper".
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

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willowweb

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2025, 04:43:11 pm »
I presume you are not saying that I would have to say that I am the keeper (as that is false)  Would I reply that i am challenging in the name of the keeper?

b789

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2025, 04:50:45 pm »
NO!!!! The ONLY person who can be dealing with this is the person named on the Notice to Keeper (NtK). That is going to be the Keeper. If YOU are not the Keeper, but you want to handle it on behalf of the Keeper, then you MUST do it as the Keeper.

You cannot say something like "I am appealing on behalf of the Keeper, my aunty Ethel" or whoever. If the Keeper is your aunty Ethel, then you do EVERYTHING in the name of aunty Ethel.

No one is going to know that the Keeper didn't ACTUALLY respond. Who cares? As long as it is the Keeper responding, then it matters not who actually responds.

The Keeper must ONLY refer to the driver in the third party. No "I did this or that", only "the driver did this or that".

MET have NO idea who the driver is unless the Keeper blabs it to them, inadvertently or otherwise. ONLY the Keeper can be liable for the PCN and there is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

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willowweb

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2025, 02:18:44 pm »
I have received the below response regarding this ticket, can you please advise how I should respond?  Apart from anything else, I understand there should be 60 minutes free parking at this car park?

Site: (346) Southgate Park
Issue date: 24/07/2025
Thank you for your correspondence in respect of the above charge. The charge was not incurred at the Airport, it was
incurred at Southgate Park (Starbucks) as the store was closed at the time and no payment was made for your stay.
If you would like to add additional comments to your appeal this can be uploaded at www.appealmetparking.com. We
have placed your charge on hold for a further 14 days to allow you time to do so. If we do not receive a response by the
end of the 14 days, we will have to reach a decision on your appeal based on the information we hold at that time.
We are confident that our notice to keeper complies in all respects with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms
Act and you are advised that where the charge has not been paid in full and 29 days has passed since we issued the
charge and we still do not know the name and address for service of court papers of the driver, we are entitled to pursue
the registered keeper for payment of the outstanding charge.
Yours sincerely

DWMB2

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2025, 02:23:54 pm »
Have they provided a POPLA code?

willowweb

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2025, 02:29:10 pm »
No, that is the full message (other than the ABN detail and the registration/ keeper details)

jfollows

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2025, 03:08:57 pm »
No, that is the full message (other than the ABN detail and the registration/ keeper details)
So it looks like the last ditch fishing attempt to get you to identify the driver. Rejection plus POPLA code should be next.
POPLA has repeatedly upheld appeals since it’s not “relevant land” so as long as the driver is not identified and POPLA is led by the nose it should do so again. Just search here for large numbers of similar cases.
Put
Stansted
into the search box.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2025, 03:11:31 pm by jfollows »

willowweb

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2025, 03:38:40 pm »
They are saying that it wasn't incurred at the airport but at Starbucks, is that still not relevant land?
thanks

jfollows

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Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2025, 03:53:17 pm »
They are saying that it wasn't incurred at the airport but at Starbucks, is that still not relevant land?
thanks
No, it is within the defined airport boundary and therefore not ‘relevant land’.
They lie because then you might just pay up. They are only interested in your money.
Why do you believe them, with a vested interest so large that it will block the sun, rather than those of us here who try to help you and have nothing apart from personal satisfaction to gain from it?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2025, 04:06:14 pm by jfollows »