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Messages - Karl

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1
Uploading these again because the link expired. Please advise.

https://ibb.co/prdbwCY4
https://ibb.co/G3VQF8gj

2
Here is the hosted image of the letter.

https://postimg.cc/Ny8H7mTh

On the reverse are some payment instructions and the like.

https://postimg.cc/VdBPwNj5

3
Just a brief update here to keep track of events.

Approx. 5 months has passed since the last letter from Trace, and today a new letter from a new company arrived. This time Moorside Legal with the heading Letter Before Claim.

Same amount being pursued, with the following closing paragraph:

Quote
Acting now will prevent additional charges, legal fees, and interest from increasing your debt. Should we receive further instructions from our client before a claim is issued, these will be added to the debt and updated on our portal.

There is a link to their online portal, which we have not yet accessed.

4
Updating on this case.

Another identical reminder about the charge was received a week or so ago. There was no change in the amount, nor anything else of note, so this was ignored just as the notices that came before it.

Today, a letter was received (body attached) informing that the collection agent will be instructing the client to begin legal proceedings.

I know the advice above was to wait for a Letter of Claim, but should anything be done in response to this preliminary missive?

In the letter, the refer to the following points as the grounds for taking legal action:

• Have you paid?
• Have you contacted us? (i)
• Did you unsuccessfully appeal a parking charge using the POPLA or IAS appeals systems? (ii)
• Evidence of the original parking charge
• [...] attempts to contact you (i)
• Existing case law

i) Obviously they have attempted to make contact, and no response has been sent on the advice of this forum.

ii) There were no appeals made through any mechanism/system. As a reminder, this is because the person driving on the day of the parking event lost the windscreen notice. By the time a notice was sent in the mail to the keeper, the first window for appeal had been missed, and the enforcer's website asserted that the same window applied for the Keeper and had as such been missed. The website therefore allowed no way of submitting the appeal. Moreover, attempts to appeal via BPA are rejected if no appeal has first been made to the parking company.

Just want to check, since a few weeks have passed since the last update, that the advice at this stage is still to wait.

Thanks!

5
Thanks, b789.

1. Not so much 'unclear' as previously unstated. The previous commented had said to wait until a Letter of Claim is received. I was asking who might send such a letter.

2. To be clear, I was not suggesting that any advice received from this forum would lead to a CCJ. I was asking if the Letter of Claim was a step that would lead to a CCJ.

I do have some understanding of how a person might get a CCJ, because I had one myself from a parking ticket, and following advice on this forum, I was able to go to court and have it removed.

However, in that case, all correspondence leading up to the CCJ was sent to a different address and never received by me, so I effectively leapfrogged a few steps in the usual process and had to act after the fact, re: the CCJ.

In this current case, I am not directly involved with the charge or parking event at all. I am here to help out another, having found the forum so helpful last time. So I want to be sure I don't misunderstand or misrepresent anything. Hence my questions there.

Thanks again for the clarification, and rest assured, I respect and trust the advice given here.


6
Thank you. Noted.

Just so that I understand, are the following correct assumptions about the Letter of Claim?

1. It will be sent by the debt collector's legal representation?
2. It will be notice of legal action, potentially leading to a CCJ?

7
Good day.

A letter has now been received from a debt collection agency, in this case Trace.

I am attaching the letter, but the content informs that the debt has been passed on to the agency, the charge now includes additional fees, and the deadline for payment is 14 days.

Note: with these additional fees (in accordance with the code of practice, according to the letter) the charge is now £170.

Note also: the deadline is given as 14 days from the date of the letter. The letter is dated 23 July, but it was received this morning, 1 August, such that 9 days have passed already.

Brief reminder, as this thread has been dormant for a few weeks.

1. Car was parked in a spot within a carpark where the driver had a fully current and properly displayed permit, however this spot in particular was designated for guests who had booked online.
2. A NtD was affixed to the window, but the driver lost this.
3. Initially, it appeared that the parking operator was not a member of either ATA. Considering this and that the ticket was lost, no appeal was made to the operator. It was later found that the operator is indeed an authorised member of the IPC but the website had apparently been out of date.
4. An NtK was sent to the keeper's address. Upon trying to appeal, the website informed that no appeal could be submitted as the window for appeal had lapsed during the first 28 days, the period before the NtK had been received.
5. To date, no appeals have been submitted.
6. Today's letter arrived.

Please advise how to proceed.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

8
Yes. The NTK explicitly states that “you as the keeper also had the right to appeal during the 28 days following the NtD” (my paraphrasing, I’ll copy the precise language later.)

And then initiating the appeal online with the case number reiterates this.

9
Certainly, I am not expecting any appeals to be successful. I just want to be sure that the proper steps are taken so that we can be successful down the line. Do you suggest that submitting the appeals is not necessary, even for the sake of showing at a later stage that all avenues were exhausted? Do you suggest that it is sufficient to just wait until PCS makes contact again?



As for the PPSCoP requirement for a 28-day appeals window, shouldn't this apply to the NTK separately from the NTD. After all, the word receipt implies a recipient, and it is reasonable to assume that a notice to DRIVER and a notice to KEEPER are notices to two separate recipients (as is relevant to the VCS v Edward case linked above).

10
The NTK has a section explaining appeals, in which it states that the appeals period was 28 days from the issuance of the NTD, and that since that period has lapsed, there is no longer any recourse to appeal.

This seems to make no sense, since the NTK exists to pursue the Keeper in the event that the driver does nor respond and cannot be identified. How is it valid to issue the Keeper with a charge, which they may well be completely unaware of prior to the receipt of the NTK, and give them no recourse to appeal?

In any case, visiting the website and entering the reference number returns the following:

Quote
Unfortunately you are unable to appeal this charge. At the time that the charge was incurred, a Notice to Driver may have been affixed to the vehicle or sent through the post. This offered the driver the ability to appeal within 28 days from its imposition. You also as the registered keeper or the driver of the vehicle had the right to appeal within the 28 day period from the point of issue of the Notice to Keeper. Since we have received no further correspondence from you, payment is required within 14 days. If you consider there to be exceptional circumstances as to why you should be allowed to appeal outside of this period then you should send your reasons to us, in writing, at 2 Wellington Place, Leeds, West Yorkshire, LS1 4AP.

This says that there was (past tense) an opportunity to appeal within 28 days of the point of issue of the NTK. The date on the NTK is 9 June. As such, only 20 days have passed.

Should this be escalated directly to the IAS? Or should an appeal be sent to the mail address above?

11
Thank you. I shall do that and report back.

For my own understanding only, why can they not pursue the keeper. In their correspondence (both the initial PCN and the NtK, if I recall correctly) they explicitly claim that they can and will do just that. Is this claim purely erroneous?

12
No appeals submitted yet, neither to PCS nor IPC. Thus far, this has not been advised, and my general understanding was that this should be avoided? If that is not correct, then I'm mistaken.

That said, I'm not sure what grounds an appeal would be made on. You might recall when I began this post it was in the context of a lost PCN. There has never really been a claim that the parking charge was not valid, but for the possibility that the company was operating improperly.

The person who received the notice was parked in a bay that PCS asserts they should not have.

What would the appeal claim? Something about the actual parking event, or a claim about non-compliance of the PCN itself?

Brief summary of events up to this point:

1. PCN attached to windscreen - 7 May
2. PCN lost. This thread started.
3. PCN found. Questions raised about the status of PCS.
4. NtK received in mail - 9 June
5. Enquiries submitted to IPC, BPA and DVLA.
6. DVLA confirmed status of PCS - 23 June
7. IPC website observed to have added PCS to AOS list.

Only correspondence sent to IPC thus far was a request to the general inbox with no reference to this case. No correspondence has been sent to PCS as of yet.


13
Okay.

I must confess to be being a little confused then. I thought you just said that escalating the complaint will not help with my case.

What advice am I following that will result in our not paying a penny?

I worry I might have got multiple lines of advice mixed up.

Up to this point, I believe I have followed all of the guidance so far. Is it now just a case of waiting for the FoI response?

In the meantime, I will search the forum for instructions on the ICA complaint.

14
Okay. So in short, the £100 fee will have to be paid, then?

15
Was there not a response to the FoI request already? I thought this was mentioned in the post on 10 June?

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