Author Topic: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area  (Read 608 times)

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MJ007

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2024, 10:36:59 pm »
Sorry, been a long day, just got back home or to my room

My case

Basically drove back from a similar late night shift, it was winter, dark and raining. So remained in left lane only, averaging around 40--45 I think
Followed by cops who pulled me over and gave me an earful on how lorries were put in peril because of my low speed. Then got this fixed penalty or course option, paid up but forgot to send the license
The sent a reminder, again misplaced and then the SJP

In the SJp I pleaded that they be lenient with me and explained the driving conditions

Then got this court summons

Nothing exciting

D

NewJudge

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2024, 08:44:23 am »
The issue here is we do not know why you have been asked to attend court.

It could be for sentencing as they may be considering disqualification (the court will no disqualify you in your absence without first giving you an opportunity to attend). It could be because your guilty plea was not accepted because your mitigation indicated you were advancing a possible defence to the charge. It could be for something else. The reason you have been asked to court is important. We don't know what it is.

This is of concern:

Quote
In the SJp I pleaded that they be lenient with me and explained the driving conditions

Quote
I pleaded guilty to the SJP, precisely to avoid wasting  time.

You should not plead guilty for the sake of expediency. If you believe you are not guilty (and you've given an indication within this thread that you believe you are) you should plead not guilty. So, one last time then I'm out: forget the rapists and murderers; what did you say (exactly, word for word) in your mitigation and how did the court respond (exactly, preferably post up their letter)?

If you consult a solicitor they will want to know these things so if you want advice on here the same applies.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2024, 08:46:02 am by NewJudge »

nigelbb

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2024, 01:47:03 pm »
My primary concern is about a criminal record, my employer will certainly raise it, if it shows up on an enhanced DBS check.
If it doesn't show up do I still have to declare it?

I have never had a speeding conviction show up on an enhanced DBS check, nor on a BPSS. I also never declared them but some people I have worked with have, usually to be told it isn't a concern. It is a question of whether it's seen as 'withholding information'. Personally I asked first and got told not to bother unless it was an imprisonable offence. 
Do you really mean speeding conviction? I can understand accepting a speed awareness course after an FPN does show up but not a conviction for speeding in the magistrates court. I know from personal experience that a conviction for driving without due care & attention does show up on an enhance DBS check

MJ007

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2024, 04:53:41 pm »
The issue here is we do not know why you have been asked to attend court.

It could be for sentencing as they may be considering disqualification (the court will no disqualify you in your absence without first giving you an opportunity to attend). It could be because your guilty plea was not accepted because your mitigation indicated you were advancing a possible defence to the charge. It could be for something else. The reason you have been asked to court is important. We don't know what it is.

This is of concern:

Quote
In the SJp I pleaded that they be lenient with me and explained the driving conditions

Quote
I pleaded guilty to the SJP, precisely to avoid wasting  time.

You should not plead guilty for the sake of expediency. If you believe you are not guilty (and you've given an indication within this thread that you believe you are) you should plead not guilty. So, one last time then I'm out: forget the rapists and murderers; what did you say (exactly, word for word) in your mitigation and how did the court respond (exactly, preferably post up their letter)?

If you consult a solicitor they will want to know these things so if you want advice on here the same applies.

Hi NJ

Thanks for the response, the mitigation letter was a long while ago. From memory it wasn't much, very polite pleaded with  humility and gave the incident details and time line

Something like  after driving for 12 years without any incidents was stopped on the motorway. Explained circumstances, was raining heavily, dark and midnight . I apologised and was given a fixed penalty notice.
Then gave the sequence of events, leading to it being referred to the SJP ( missed post and failed to include driving license details, despite paying the fine)
Explained my work as a agency temp and the only earning member of the family. Plus the job I do

Last para was that I plead guilty and and am willing to accept whatever punishment.  Given that the fixed term penalty was missed because of unfortunate events, I would be grateful if the same conditions and fines were maintained. I shall leave that to your discretion and hope for the best.

-------
Don't know if this is relevant but around the same time, in a separate letter I wrote to the Police, asking for details of the case under the subject access route. Also compared this stop and eagerness, to my car being vandalised/broken on two occasions, where the police gave me a reference number and closed the case. So asked him if traffic offences are the Police ATM or cash cow.
Don't know if these guys had a 'little chat' and decided to teach me a lesson. They should know each other, meet at golf courses or pubs or in the courts, don't they??
As all the Solicitors who I have sought the 'initial free advise' are amazed, that this  ended up in court, despite a guilty plea

Ps

Groan , does careless driving conviction actually show up on an enhanced DBS check . There goes my weekend

666

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2024, 05:10:48 pm »


Groan , does careless driving conviction actually show up on an enhanced DBS check . There goes my weekend

According to gov.uk

"a standard check, which shows spent and unspent convictions and adult cautions, from the Police National Computer which have not been filtered in line with legislation

an enhanced check, which shows the same as a standard check plus any information held by local police that’s considered relevant to the role"

So I guess it depends on the job for which you're being vetted.

DWMB2

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2024, 05:14:41 pm »
Quote
Groan , does careless driving conviction actually show up on an enhanced DBS check . There goes my weekend
A more pertinent question might be: "Will your employer care about a minor motoring conviction?"

Whenever I've had to have DBS checks, it's been to ensure I won't pose a risk to vulnerable people I may encounter during the course of my work, or to ensure I haven't been convicted of crimes involving breach of trust that would make me unsuitable to handle sensitive information or money, such as fraud convictions for example.

NewJudge

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2024, 06:08:21 pm »
Quote
...the mitigation letter was a long while ago. From memory it wasn't much,...
Not much help then.

What about the letter they sent to you, asking you to attend court? What did that say?

Quote
Don't know if this is relevant but around the same time, in a separate letter I wrote to the Police, asking for details of the case under the subject access route. Also compared this stop and eagerness, to my car being vandalised/broken on two occasions, where the police gave me a reference number and closed the case. So asked him if traffic offences are the Police ATM or cash cow.

No, it's not relevant.

Quote
Don't know if these guys had a 'little chat' and decided to teach me a lesson. They should know each other, meet at golf courses or pubs or in the courts, don't they??

Not to my knowledge. If you are suggesting somebody "had a little chat" with a magistrate, chosen at random from a large contingent, who presided over the Single Justice session where, coincidentally, your case happened to be heard, I'd suggest you've been at the bottle.

Quote
As all the Solicitors who I have sought the 'initial free advise' are amazed, that this  ended up in court, despite a guilty plea

It ended up in court (the Single Justice Procedure being part of the court process) because you failed to comply with the conditions of the fixed penalty offer you were made. It is too late to fret over the impact a conviction may have on your employment. Whether it results from a Single Justice hearing or from a hearing in the normal magistrates' court, it is the same thing - a conviction.

I am amazed that they are amazed because, from the information you've provided here it is impossible to say why you have been asked to attend.

I don' think we will get any further with that question here and I reckon you will just have to pitch up and find out what they want. Don't drive there though in case you are disqualified and you can't drive home.

Southpaw82

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2024, 06:42:17 pm »
Not to my knowledge. If you are suggesting somebody "had a little chat" with a magistrate, chosen at random from a large contingent, who presided over the Single Justice session where, coincidentally, your case happened to be heard, I'd suggest you've been at the bottle.

More like a perpetual victim.

MJ007

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2024, 08:12:21 pm »
Quote
...the mitigation letter was a long while ago. From memory it wasn't much,...
Not much help then.

--MJ So my mitigation letter wasn't something out of the blue? Still they didn't consider it


What about the letter they sent to you, asking you to attend court? What did that say

MJ-  It says

        Summmons on Referral to Court
A magistrate has decided that your case should be referred to a full court hearing.
Location and date/time given

REASON: Case inappropriate from the SJP 


Attendance:  arrive 30 before

Warning:

Cases : Charge initiated  by the Chief Constable- Driving without due care and attention.  Section 3 of RTA and Schedule 2 of RTOA  1988
The sentence for this offence can be endorsed on your driving record

     Referral to Full Court Hearing
Your case was considered by the Court under the SJP. However, owing to the reasons given ( didn't find any F reason tbh) your case has now been referred to a hearing before a full magistrates'' court. For more information of the reason, see below

Advise and help

(overall no actual reason given why it's not suitable for the SJP. Just says
1) Case unsuitable for SJP
 2) As unsuitable, now referred to  a full Court hearing
Sounds like pure BS to me
---------------------------------


 I'd suggest you've been at the bottle.
No Sir, stopped drinking since June 2022.
----------------------------------

My understanding is or take home point is, irrespective of the reason why and how,
I have now to face a full court hearing.
My previous guilty plea doesn't hold water, for the simple reason that the court itself has not accepted my guilty plea
When I do attend court, the case would either be listed for trial or it would be adjourned for a case management hearing
I have an option to plead not guilty and argue that the offence is not made out


D

Southpaw82

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2024, 08:24:01 pm »
I have an option to plead not guilty and argue that the offence is not made out

Who has told you that?

MJ007

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2024, 09:08:26 pm »
I have an option to plead not guilty and argue that the offence is not made out

Who has told you that?
A Solicitor

Southpaw82

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2024, 09:28:25 pm »
And what are they basing that on? I’ve already set out above how I read the various sections of the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980 pointing towards your plea having been entered and the rest of the matter adjourned, so I’d be interested to know why they think otherwise.

MJ007

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2024, 08:11:42 am »
So could I change my plea? Yes or non
A senior Solicitor thinks I can.
A layman like me thinks, why not? Bcos a magistrate has rejected the guilty plea and my
mitigation statement as ‘ inappropriate to be tried under SJP’
So all bets are  off? We start anew, facing a proper trial with a three member magistrate bench?

Either way, bull*cks to them all, a person like me
should never trust the establishment.Easy for you guys to disagree and ridicule me as an alcoholic  or playing the victim card. I'm not offended in the least.
Will fork out 3 k and fight this in court

At least it would answer the million dollar question on why? Why was it inappropriate to try this case under the SJP

D

andy_foster

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2024, 10:02:23 am »
Generally speaking, there will be something that the SJP can neither accept on face value or ignore. Something that the court will want to hear evidence on and weigh up that evidence, rather than something that can be decided on the papers.

Whether that is mitigation that would lessen the seriousness of the offence if the court accepts your evidence on the matter, or something that could amount to a defence if the court accepts your evidence on the matter, or something else.

Back in the old days when prosecutions were initiated with a summons, when you entered a plea in advance, that was taken to be an indication of you intention to plead - if you turned up on the day, you would be asked to plead/confirm your plea.

If you have been convicted and the case transferred for sentencing, then you would need to ask the court to re-open the case or allow you to vacate your plea if you want to plead not guilty. If your plea has been rejected, then effectively a not guilty plea would have been entered on your behalf.

We can't tell you any more. The court might be able to though.

N.B. There has been a lot of irrelevant noise in this thread. Any further posts bumping the thread or otherwise not adding to it for the purposes of providing advice to the OP are likely to either be removed or have the thread locked.
I am responsible for the accuracy of the information I post, not your ability to comprehend it.
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MJ007

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Re: Traffic offence Solicitors in Leamington Spa-Coventry area
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2024, 10:32:27 am »
Thanks, Andy