Author Topic: Hi, Anything wrong with this sign?.  (Read 1231 times)

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Hi, Anything wrong with this sign?.
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[ Guests cannot view attachments ] 476146412_4025579037677540_3257654841730213631_n.jpg. Hi, newby here. New signs up at a garage that also services a Mcdonalds. Anything wrong with it?. Thanks.

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Re: Hi, Anything wrong with this sign?.
« Reply #1 on: »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Hi, Anything wrong with this sign?.
« Reply #2 on: »
Hi,
It came up on my Facebook page of a local group I am part of. Someone highlighted that the premises had put up these new signs.  Was a discussion of the legality. In the past there used to be a guy in a car waiting to pounce if you left the garage area to go to the McDonald's. Many thanks for your interest. :)

Re: Hi, Anything wrong with this sign?.
« Reply #3 on: »
The sign fails to clearly distinguish between "terms" and "conditions". For example:

• Is "No McDonald's customer parking" a term or a condition? It would appear to be a prohibition but is not clearly labelled.

• Does "leaving vehicles unattended" constitute a breach of the "terms", or is it merely a "condition" for valid parking?

This lack of clarity undermines the enforceability of the sign as a contractual notice. For a parking contract to be enforceable:

• The terms and conditions must be clearly defined and communicated to the driver.

• A reasonable person should be able to understand what they are agreeing to by parking on the site.

As it stands, this sign creates confusion rather than forming a clear and enforceable parking contract.

Here are some other issues:

Contradictory Statements:

• The upper sign states, "Parking is permitted for patrons of the garage whilst on the premises at all times," but also says, "Drivers who leave their vehicles unattended at any time either before or after using the garage will be subject to immediate enforcement."

This creates ambiguity about whether patrons are permitted to leave their vehicles unattended while legitimately using the garage facilities.

Prohibitive Nature:

• The terms on the sign suggest that parking is not offered as a service but instead is conditional and primarily prohibitive (e.g., "No McDonald's customer parking at any time"). Signs with prohibitive language cannot typically form a valid contract for parking.

Font Size and Readability:

• Key terms and conditions are written in small font compared to the rest of the text. This makes it difficult for a driver to read and fully understand the terms, particularly from a moving vehicle or at night.

Lack of Clear Definitions:

• Terms like "using the garage" and "patrons" are not defined. For example, does "using the garage" include visiting the shop attached to the garage or just purchasing fuel? Lack of clarity makes enforcement questionable.

Multiple Operators/Entities:

[/indent]• The sign mentions "PCM Ltd" and "mfg" (presumably the fuel station brand). It's unclear who is responsible for enforcement or who a contract is formed with. This makes it difficult to establish who a valid contract is being formed with.[/indent]

Unclear Enforcement Method:

• While the sign references "immediate enforcement," it does not state how this is achieved (e.g., ANPR cameras, parking attendants). This leads to confusion.

Data Protection Concerns:

• The sign states that personal data will be collected and processed but does not provide a clear and accessible privacy notice as required by the UK General Data Protection Regulation (UK GDPR).

"Customer Parking Only" Contradiction:

• The red sign below creates further confusion. It reiterates that parking is for customers but adds a condition about "owners not using the forecourt facilities" being issued a PCN. The overlap and inconsistency with the top sign and undermines enforceability.

Unclear Signage Position:

• Depending on where this sign is located (e.g., visibility at the entrance and placement within the site), it may not adequately communicate terms to drivers before they enter into a parking contract.

These issues alone, would make it difficult for the operator to establish a clear and enforceable contract, therefore invalidating any parking charges issued based on this signage.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Hi, Anything wrong with this sign?.
« Reply #4 on: »
I'll shift this to the Flame Pit as it doesn't currently concern a live case.

Re: Hi, Anything wrong with this sign?.
« Reply #5 on: »
Thank you so much for taking the time to look at this.