Author Topic: Have I been caught?  (Read 8707 times)

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slapdash

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Re: Have I been caught?
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2024, 09:18:56 am »
My post generally arrives between 8am and 3pm which would make it a pain.

My belief is the day of the offence is day 0.



FuzzyDuck

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Re: Have I been caught?
« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2024, 09:25:07 am »
It's not always that easy. We used to have a member on Pepipoo (PeterG) who knew a NIP was incoming, got the postman to witness opening the envelope when it was delivered after the 14 days but still got found guilty at the magistrates court even with the post as a witness, Had to appeal it all the way to crown court before managing to get the verdict overturned.
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slapdash

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Re: Have I been caught?
« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2024, 10:14:36 am »
Perhaps contacting the local ticket office and enquiring if a NIPhas been issued might be prudent. Otherwise when does one stop waiting for it to come.

666

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Re: Have I been caught?
« Reply #63 on: July 29, 2024, 10:17:55 am »
Just answered my own question

Notice of Intended Prosecution
Section 1 Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 ['RTOA 1988'] provides that a defendant cannot be convicted of certain road traffic offences set out in schedule 1 RTOA 1988 unless they have been warned that the question of prosecution would be considered. Such a warning is normally known as a "notice of intended prosecution", or NIP.

A notice of intended prosecution can be given:

either orally or in writing at the time the offence was committed. The warning need not be specific but must refer to one or more of the offences to which section 1 RTOA 1988 applies. Whether a warning was given "at the time" is a question of degree. The High Court will not interfere with a Magistrates' Court finding on that point if there is evidence to support it.
by serving the defendant with a postal charge requisition (‘PCR’) or single justice procedure (‘SJP’) notice within 14 days of the offence; or
by sending within 14 days of the alleged offence a notice indicating the possibility of prosecution. The notice must specify the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed, and must be sent to the driver, registered keeper of the vehicle, or rider of the cycle
.

Sending is not the same as receiving. So I suppose you have to provide 2 more days for receiving it
???
That summary of the law is (as is often the case)  wrong. The notice must be SERVED (i.e. delivered), not "sent" within the 14 days. See Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 section 1.

50mph

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Re: Have I been caught?
« Reply #64 on: July 29, 2024, 12:11:30 pm »
My post generally arrives between 8am and 3pm which would make it a pain.

My belief is the day of the offence is day 0.

Great, now we have clarified day of offence is day 0 and it must be served within 14 days (that was yesterday)  and Postman has already come today at 11:30 and nothing so far.  Postman has agreed to check everyday for the rest of the week - comes around midday and I work from home so that should work out OK.

andy_foster

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Re: Have I been caught?
« Reply #65 on: July 29, 2024, 12:47:24 pm »
In your first post, you claim to have been "snapped" by a speed camera. This is essentially bollox. You cannot know that you were snapped.

You were apparently flashed by a unit in a speed camera housing that variously could have been a dummy unit, an actual speed camera that had run out of film, or a "live" speed camera.

Statistically, if you are the RK and haven't received a NIP within the 14 days the chances are that it's not the last one.

You proceeded to quote some utter bollox that you found somewhere on the internet, without citation. You presumably had little chance of knowing that it was utter bollox, but without citation, it is meaningless. A lot of bollox is posted on the internet.
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50mph

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Re: Have I been caught?
« Reply #66 on: July 29, 2024, 01:09:53 pm »
Thanks for your input.

Snap(ped) as in camera flashed, I take your point.

I suppose this is the definitive guide on the internet.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/1

andy_foster

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Re: Have I been caught?
« Reply #67 on: July 29, 2024, 02:43:04 pm »
Yes and no. Those are the words of the legislation, but case law often clarifies what those words actually mean.

For example, a notice that must be served under the :Landlord and Tennant Act is served when it is sent, regardless of whether or not it is received. A NIP is served when it is delivered, which is deemed to be 2 working days after properly posting by first class post, unless the contrary is proven.

The case law for the latter is Gidden v Chief Constable of Humberside
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50mph

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Re: Have I been caught?
« Reply #68 on: July 31, 2024, 03:10:52 pm »
Yes and no. Those are the words of the legislation, but case law often clarifies what those words actually mean.

 A NIP is served when it is delivered, which is deemed to be 2 working days after properly posting by first class post, unless the contrary is proven.

The case law for the latter is Gidden v Chief Constable of Humberside

That's very helpful, thank you.

Update:  Offence on July 14th, today is July 31 and nothing received. Hopefully a lucky escape for me.

Liam666

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Speeding ticket
« Reply #69 on: August 09, 2024, 09:24:29 pm »
Good evening,
Iv seen a few posts regarding getting a speeding ticket on the A59 (Scotland road) Liverpool. It's a three lane carriage way that I "assumed" was at least 40mph due to it being 3 lanes and the fact that the road exiting the carriage Way had a 30mph sign indicating to myself that the road I was on was over 30mph., anyway, there was a police van parked in the lay by so I suspect I'll be getting a ticket any day soon. From the image what would you guys assume the speed limit was bearing in mind it's a 3 lane carriage with a 30mph road sign on the exiting side road.. I know I'm in the wrong as the street lights would dictate the speed limit but I feel I was caught off guard.. thanks for any input.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2024, 09:40:55 pm by Liam666 »

Liam666

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Re: Have I been caught?
« Reply #70 on: August 09, 2024, 09:46:40 pm »

andy_foster

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Re: Have I been caught?
« Reply #71 on: August 09, 2024, 09:48:38 pm »
thanks for any input.

So, you posted a thread in the live cases forum, with the title "Speeding Ticket", because you saw a camera van and haven't received a speeding ticket, and accept that you are bang to rights, but want our opinion of whether the road looks like a higher limit, despite acknowledging that street lights with no speed limit signs to thee contrary means it's a restricted road with a speed limit of 30mph?

Is there something in the water?
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mickR

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Re: Speeding ticket
« Reply #72 on: August 10, 2024, 12:30:13 pm »
From the image what would you guys assume the speed limit was bearing in mind it's a 3 lane carriage with a 30mph road sign on the exiting side road.
140 

BertB

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Re: Have I been caught?
« Reply #73 on: September 02, 2024, 11:37:38 am »
Assuming your estimate of speed is correct, best tip to get lower than 6 points would be to fill in the request for drivers detail asap and receive a fixed penalty of 3 points & £100. Or you could try to delay things again for as long as possible, then delay the court date for a bit longer, argue it out at court, get maybe 5 points instead of 6 and a fine (c) 125% of your weekly wage, but at least you will have won.

naffedoff70

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delaying tactics.successful tactics on band b for getting 4 points instead of 6
« Reply #74 on: September 03, 2024, 06:38:06 pm »
I started a similar post the other day, looks like I added too much additional "colour" and it got taken down.
background:
last time I inflicted a similar situation on myself I managed to delay,delay,delay (pre covid) until eventually getting a summary justice "fill this in or else" type form. the eventualoutcome was I delayed my conviction @11 months so only had "active" points for 2 years 1 month (points applied from date of offence). I obviously took additional care in the interimperiod  but, for example, if I had been caught in speed awareness 'territory', that would have still been open to me. It also delayed additional insurance cost pain and reduced the period said pain was suffered by 11 months. The problem for me is that all the correspondence around delaying etc sits on a dead computer.
It was 52 in a 30, I tried some old yarns at the time but did still cop the full 6 points. Now expired.

last week I've likely picked up a band B, no NIP yet but probably somewhere between 71-74 (real speed) in a 50. obviously I understand strict liability, etc, I'm going to take some pain, would ususally be a straight 6 points I genuinely believe that there are some mitigating factors that make it "not as bad" as many other "70 odd in a 50". I'm wondering if at the summary justice stage,I have a slim chance of getting 4 instead of 6 points, assuming any actual proportionality gets applied.
Two aims -
1- anything to delay the process as long as possible, so all tactics on that appreciated. Just to be clear I'm not too fussed if dragging out to summary justice incurrs additional costs.

2- input from anyone that has managed to mitigate a band B down to four points -Can it be done? Or is 4 pOints only the preserve of those only a few M.P.H. into Band B?

Any constructive input appreciated.