-
https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/24078266.a20-eastbound-sidcup-leads-dozens-speeding-fines/
Apparently loads of driver caught and paid up. Customer for this site methinks (next time) -
-
This has been widely reported.
Yes, there was a rogue sign (placed there apparently by an unauthorised member of the public in what the police are investigating as an attempt to pervert the course of justice), but the problem for all the drivers claiming that it caused them to speed is that such a claim is nonsense.
That stretch of road has average speed measuring cameras. The fake sign was close to the second camera, and if you do the maths it's impossible for any driver's average speed to have exceeded the threshold for prosecution if they accelerated to 50 when they passed the sign if they'd been driving at the correct speed before it.
Any driver who got a speeding ticket had to have already been speeding past all the 40mph signs before the 50mph ones.
It may be that even though that section of the A20 was correctly signed when a temporary speed limit was put in place, the presence of the sign invalidated the entire traffic order until it was removed, but that's the only grounds for appeal anybody has - saying "I wouldn't have been speeding if that sign hadn't been there" is demonstrably untrue. -
-
It would likely have caught me (bang to rights but frustrating).
I'd have been speeding at +10% +1 in the expectation of being under the threshold. At the 50 sign I would have done the same putting me over the threshold between 2 cameras.
It wouldn't have made me speed. I would have been. But it would have made me get caught. -
-
Obviously, slapdash, the way for you to avoid such problems is to stop regarding speed limits as some sort of semi-official guidance, and start obeying the law.
-
-
There is, of course, that option.
Apparently only around 10% of licences have points so collectively we must be fairly law abiding.
I found it quite surprising that 62,000 NIP had allegedly been produced on that stretch in a 2 month period. That's quite a chunk when only a bit over 1 mln are produced nationally over a full year.
-
-
I don't believe the enforcement has anything to do with TfL, they may have the wrong target in their sights.
If I were on the receiving end of one, and I was on 9pts, I would probably try NG. Slim chance of success though.
-
-
I don't believe the enforcement has anything to do with TfL
Indeed, TFL has nothing to do with enforcement, though they are of course responsible for providing adequate signage. -
-
Perhaps an argument that it was inadequate - at least from the fake sign - due to lack of maintenance could be attempted.
-
-
Perhaps an argument that it was inadequate - at least from the fake sign - due to lack of maintenance could be attempted.
I doubt it, as it's been calculated that those who were caught must have been exceeding the limit prior to the fake sign in any event. -
-
OK guys - I give up, you all win.
This is clearly a site with a very definite political bias and there are people here removing, or having removed, any posts which do not conform to their beliefs.
I shan't trouble you any more. -
-
I wondered where your reply had gone.
-
-
This old chestnut reared its head on LBC Nick Ferrari show this morning. One caller has ratched up 10 or more cases, another had 4, etc. But a number of cases have gone to mgistrates and the police have failed to turn up with any evidence.
This was the road where yo come off the M20 at Swanley, onto the A20 at NSL then onto 50. About November last year some 40 signs appeared overnight with a mixture of 40 and 50 signs causing uncertainty. There's another thread about it on here but I couldn't find it. -
-
Is this what you are referring to :-
https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/dodgy-signage!!-a20-sidcup/msg17182/?topicseen#msg17182
-
-
Quote
This was the road where yo come off the M20 at Swanley, onto the A20 at NSL then onto 50. About November last year some 40 signs appeared overnight with a mixture of 40 and 50 signs causing uncertainty. There's another thread about it on here but I couldn't find it.
It's in the opposite direction, Roy (eastbound).
The A20 formerly went from 50mph to NSL around the Crittals Corner flyover (junction with the A224). Because of problems caused by poor drainage, the NSL was reduced to 40mph from there to the TfL boundary about two miles further east. The westbound carriageway remains unchanged, being NSL all the way to Crittals Corner, where it reduces to 50mph.
The eastbound carriageway was closed over August Bank Holiday for work to improve the drainage but when I last went along that stretch (last week) the 40 limit (which, contrary to claims by some motorists, is very clearly signed) remained in place.
As I've said before, leaving aside the complication brought about by the rogue 50 sign (which was only in place for a few days at most) I find it incredible that drivers suggest the new limit was poorly signed. There were large yellow warning notices erected at the beginning of the stretch on the A20 itself and on the slip road up from the Crittals Corner roundabout. They were erected along with the "40" signage in early October and are are still in place. Enforcement via an average speed system did not begin until 19th December.
The signage seems perfectly adequate and compliant. There are large terminal signs at the start of the stretch and repeaters throughout. Many drivers who have seen action against them complain that the repeaters are too small and may be hidden by lorries. That may be so, but they are regulation size and there is nothing deficient about the terminal signs.
I must say I have not heard any reports of police failing to offer evidence in any cases which went to court. They carried out research when the "rogue" 50mph sign appeared briefly towards the end of the stretch. They calculated the average speed a driver would achieve if he kept to the 40 limit from the start to the rogue sign, and increased to 50 from there (which was very near to the end of the stretch). They made a small allowance for drivers who averaged the (Limit+10%+2mph) for both the limits, but took action against the vast majority who had exceeded the limit considerably. -
-
Yes, of course, I'm getting my directions mixed up! I've not ventured along that road since the ULEZ expansion! It used to be one of my regular weekend runs when we used to work in London at weekend.
But I'm just reporting what was said on the wireless the other day. -
Like x 1
View List
Dislike x 1
View List