Author Topic: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark  (Read 1802 times)

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DontStandForNonsense

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2024, 12:07:30 pm »
Ok I sent the AoS as instructed and chose the option contest all - hope that was correct. Was worried the site might time before I receive further guidance.

DontStandForNonsense

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2024, 12:09:00 pm »
With a claim issue date of 12th July, you have until Wednesday 31st July to acknowledge service (AoS) of the claim. There is no advantage to delaying the AoS. However, by filing the AoS, you then have until 4pm on Wednesday 14th August to submit your defence.

You should have a read of the document in the link below on how to submit your AoS. Do not use the MCOL to submit your defence. That should be done as a PDF attachment to an email which will be advised once you have done the AoS.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

There is a new "short" defence that should shorten the whole process and see this either discontinued or struck-out because the claimant has failed to follow the rules, namely CPR 16.4(1)(a).

AoS submitted and alarm set to warn before 14th of Aug.

b789

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2024, 01:30:22 pm »
You are defending ALL the claim. Thankfully you did so.

Is the V5C registration document up to date? Did you move at any time in the last year or so and if so, did you update the V5C address with the DVLA. Updating your drivers licence does not automatically update the V5C.

Why are you thinking that you are liable for an alleged debt to an unregulated private parking company. Can anyone simply send you an invoice and you will just pay it without wondering why you are alleged to owe the money?

The claim is against the driver. The claimant is alleging that, because the driver (who is always liable for the alleged debt) is unknown, they can also sue the keeper, who is known. They cannot do both. If they want to be able to transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known keeper, they will have had to comply fully with all the requirements of PoFA. We have no idea if they did or did not.

Was the driver aware that there were conditions for stopping on the private land? Was the fact that there was a charge of £100, adequately brought to the attention of the driver? Was the signage fully compliant with the unregulated private parking company's Approved Operator Scheme? Does the PPC even have a valid contract flowing from the landowner to them that allows them to issue PCNs in their own name?

There are so many failures in their claim that the short defence will force them to submit a new particulars of claim that fully comply with the attached order. They will be unable to do so.

As you have done the AOS, the defence must be submitted before the deadline. The defence and order should filed as PDF attachments to an email to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk. The subject of the email should contain the claim reference number and simply state in the body of the email: Please see attached defence and draft order for claim [claim number].

This is the suggested defence:

Quote


IN THE COUNTY COURT

Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

Claimant's Full Name
Claimant

- and -

Defendant's Full Name
Defendant



DEFENCE

1. The Defendant denies any liability for this claim.


2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a).


3.The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because: 

  (i) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16.7.5;

  (ii) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

  (iii) The PoC do not set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts);

  (iv) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

  (v) The PoC do not state exactly how the claim for statutory interest is calculated;

  (vi) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

  (vii) The PoC states that the Claimant is suing the defendant as the driver or the keeper. The claimant obviously knows whether the defendant is being sued as the driver or the keeper and should not be permitted to plead alternative causes of action. 

4. The Defendant has attached to this defence a copy of an order made at another court which the allocating judge ought to make at this stage so that the Defendant can then know and understand the case which he/she/it faces and can then respond properly to the claim.


Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:


Date:

This is the draft order that should be sent with the defence:

Quote
Of the Court's own initiative and upon reading the particulars of claim and the defence,

AND the court being of the view that there is a lack of precise detail in the particulars of claim in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the defendant(s), such that the particulars of claim do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a),

It is Ordered that:

1. Unless the Claimant by 4pm on [insert a date here, 14 days from the date of this order] files at court further particulars of claim which comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a) and which set out:

  (i) the precise and concise factual allegations it makes against the Defendant;

  (ii) the factual or legal basis (or both) of its claim; and

  (iii) exactly how its claim is calculated (if there is a claim for a fixed sum);

then the claim shall be struck out.

2. For the avoidance of doubt, the further particulars of claim must:

   (i) Refer to and have attached to them a copy of the contract (or contracts) between the Claimant and Defendant relied upon (clearly marked "A") and set out the exact wording of the clause(s) of the terms and conditions of the contract(s) which is (or are) relied upon.

   (ii) Refer to and have attached to them a copy of each of the PCNs which forms the basis of this claim (clearly marked "B") and state by what method each of the PCNs was first brought to the attention of the Defendant. For example, attaching it to the Defendant's vehicle.


   (iii) In respect of each and every alleged breach of contract, set out the reason(s) why the Claimant asserts that the Defendant was in breach of contract.

   (iv) In respect of each and every alleged breach of contract, set out:

      (a) the full postal address where the breach took place,

      (b) the precise date and time of the alleged breach, and

      (c) exactly how long it is alleged that the Defendant parked his/her/its/their vehicle before the parking charge was incurred.

   (v) State whether the Defendant is sued as the driver of the vehicle or the keeper of the vehicle. The further particulars of claim must not plead that the Defendant is sued either as the driver of the vehicle or as the keeper of the vehicle.

   (vi) State what part of the claim is for non-payment of the PCN and what part of the claim is for damages, explaining the factual or legal basis (or both) of the claim for damages.

   (vii) Set out a precise calculation of any claim for statutory interest up to the date of issue, including the date when it is said that interest started running.

3. Permission is granted to either party to apply to set aside, vary, or stay this order by an application on notice, which must be filed at this Court no later than 5 days after service of this order. Failing which, no such application may be made.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

DontStandForNonsense

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2024, 05:47:31 pm »
This is total leaglese to me but it looks like you really know what you're on about :)

Forgive my ignorance but do I understand next steps correctly:

1. Edit the defence you posted to include my name, case number, claimant, signed and dated
2. Edit the order with
Save them as pdf files
3. Attached them in an email addressed to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk
4. With the claim ref in the subject line and  'Please see attached defence and draft order for claim [claim number]' in the main body of the email
5. Only thing to edit in the order is to put the date of the 14th of August if I send it today (24 July)?

Will I receive any sort of confirmation or expect to receive a reply?

DontStandForNonsense

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2024, 05:52:08 pm »
Any tips on how to create a pdf file out of this? I'm so not computer literate beyond sending emails, typing documents and browsing emails and the internet.

DWMB2

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2024, 05:56:30 pm »
Any tips on how to create a pdf file out of this? I'm so not computer literate beyond sending emails, typing documents and browsing emails and the internet.
Have you got Microsoft Word, or another similar word processor? If so, when you go to save the document, you should get an option like the below:



Click where it says "Word Document (*.docx)" and in the drop down box there should be an option for PDF.

DontStandForNonsense

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2024, 06:09:06 pm »
Perfect  :D

b789

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2024, 06:11:47 pm »
Only edit the defence with your name, the claimants name (UK Parking Control Ltd) and the claim number. Do not edit the order. The allocating judge will put the date in. Attach that as is.

You can simply type your name for the signature so no need to actually print it.

Here is a Word version of the defence:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7syvvf4oyzhhf8ivpm8l5/Short-defence.docx?rlkey=nt6872tcq0pru7t4y9ofef1x1&st=dp7w77hu&dl=0

Here is a pdf of the order:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zgyll28jotx8hx7xv9ln6/short-defence-order-copy.pdf?rlkey=fa6lj4510zf0xk3d8klcmqcnl&st=61n54qfi&dl=0
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

DontStandForNonsense

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2024, 07:11:48 pm »
Thank you both,

I sent both documents exactly as instructed to the email with references.

You made it idiot proof for me :) (required)

I just received an auto reply:

Quote
Thank you for emailing the Claim Responses Team in the Civil National Business Centre. Please expect a response to your enquiry in 10 days
When sending us documents please ensure you comply with the Practice Direction 5B
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part05/pd_part05b
Documents not complying will not be accepted, in particular if it is over 10MB or 25 printed pages in size.

If this gets cancelled, I promise to donate £50 to this site if it accepts donations?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2024, 07:20:16 pm by DontStandForNonsense »

DWMB2

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2024, 07:47:40 pm »
The site is provided for free (the owner, Southpaw82 very generously covers the cost of hosting).

If you prevail, you may wish to use some of the saved money to donate to charity, but there is no obligation to do so.

DontStandForNonsense

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2024, 07:55:05 pm »
Will do :)

DontStandForNonsense

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2024, 10:55:51 pm »
Only edit the defence with your name, the claimants name (UK Parking Control Ltd) and the claim number. Do not edit the order. The allocating judge will put the date in. Attach that as is.

You can simply type your name for the signature so no need to actually print it.

Here is a Word version of the defence:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7syvvf4oyzhhf8ivpm8l5/Short-defence.docx?rlkey=nt6872tcq0pru7t4y9ofef1x1&st=dp7w77hu&dl=0

Here is a pdf of the order:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zgyll28jotx8hx7xv9ln6/short-defence-order-copy.pdf?rlkey=fa6lj4510zf0xk3d8klcmqcnl&st=61n54qfi&dl=0

Okay so a few days ago we received the acknowledgement for our defense (link to letter below), and then this morning received a letter of the claimants intention to proceed with the claim (also linked below). The letter where they inform us of their intent to proceed, is dated 31st of July and they give 7 days if we wish to discuss settlement. Odd that it should have been delivered to us on the last of the 7 days!

Anyway, I'd really appreciate guidance on next steps :)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/M9uPrSm4Yi1aCTWr6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JLwz6ChQRsuv6kjA7

DWMB2

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2024, 11:05:59 pm »
In short, settlement is for those willing to settle. You are, I assume, looking to pay £0. I definitely wouldn't speak to them on the phone, a phone call is worth as much as the paper it isn't written on.

DontStandForNonsense

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2024, 11:28:04 pm »
In short, settlement is for those willing to settle. You are, I assume, looking to pay £0. I definitely wouldn't speak to them on the phone, a phone call is worth as much as the paper it isn't written on.

Yes I really don't want to pay these people a thing.

b789

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Re: Received a court claim form for overstaying in a supermarket carpark
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2024, 11:58:59 pm »
This is all standard procedure. Nothing out of the ordinary and as expected.

Please confirm you sent the Short defence and the draft order as is.

You are now waiting for your own N180 DQ form. You can download one online and have it ready to send to the CNBC and the claimant once you receive notification on your MCOL history that one has been sent to you. It could be weeks.

What I expect will happen after that is that the claim will either be struck out or the claimant will receive the order from the case management judge and the claimant will either fail to fully comply with the order, claim struck out or they will discontinue.

In the highly unlikely case of the claimant being able to fully comply with the order, you will be given a suitable period to amend your defence. If it ever comes to that, we will cross that bridge as and when.

For now, check your MCOL for notification that your DQ has been sent.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain