Author Topic: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement  (Read 254 times)

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andybristol

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2025, 07:44:31 pm »
Thank you. I'll read through the judgement shortly
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Charitynjw

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2025, 08:20:01 pm »
For completeness, the pcn's state that £70 will be added later.
But the site sign only mentions a nebulous 'additional charge'.
*Acceptance of an offer in contract law requires the offer, & the acceptance of the offer, to be unequivical.
This is commonly referred to as the 'mirror image rule'. (Google is your BFF )

*Acceptance by performance - Carlill v Carbolic Smoke Ball Co
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/1892/1.html

Nb - this only pertains to the £70 add-on.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2025, 08:31:24 pm by Charitynjw »

b789

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2025, 10:17:09 am »
Why on earth would you consider that sign prohibitory?

Contractual vs. Prohibitory Language

Headline: “3 HOURS MAXIMUM STAY – For members whilst using the sports centre”. This permits parking for up to 3 hours under specific conditions.

Further terms: “If you wish to park for longer you must register for a permit at reception”. Again, this indicates a process through which longer parking is allowed — i.e. a conditional offer.

Breach consequences: “If you breach any of these terms you will be charged £100”. This implies a contractual agreement with a penalty for breach, rather than a blanket prohibition.

In private parking case law (especially post-ParkingEye v Beavis), a prohibitory sign is one which does not offer parking at all, or withdraws permission to park unless specific conditions are met, but does not provide a mechanism to accept a contractual offer, i.e. there is no contract to be formed, only a prohibition or restriction.

It’s not just about language like “No Parking”; it’s about whether a contractual licence is being offered. If there’s no genuine offer, then any signage operates purely as a prohibition.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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andybristol

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2025, 10:22:56 am »
Thank you for all the messages. So what response is the preferred one for me to take when I appeal? Kind regards

b789

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2025, 12:26:33 pm »
@Charitynjw has suggested that the location may be covered by Bristol City Council Byelaws for Pleasure Grounds, Public Walks and Open Spaces.

Having looked at them, it is inconclusive. Based on the information available, the car park at Horfield Leisure Centre is situated adjacent to the Dorian Road Playing Field, which is explicitly listed in Schedule 1 of the Bristol City Council Byelaws for Pleasure Grounds, Public Walks and Open Spaces. These byelaws apply to the grounds listed in Schedule 1, encompassing areas designated as pleasure grounds, public walks, and open spaces.​

However, the byelaws do not provide detailed maps or precise boundaries of the areas they cover. Therefore, while the proximity of the car park to the Dorian Road Playing Field suggests potential inclusion, without specific boundary delineations, it is not possible to definitively confirm whether the car park falls within the area governed by the byelaws.​

The document makes a single reference to boundary information in the heading of Schedule 1, which states:

“GROUNDS TO WHICH BYELAWS APPLY (Also refer to relevant map)”

This implies that a map exists (or existed at the time of the byelaws' adoption) to clarify the precise boundaries of the land covered. However, the PDF does not include this map, nor does it describe the boundaries in any further detail.

To obtain a conclusive determination, you would have to contact Bristol City Council directly. They can provide authoritative information regarding the exact boundaries of the byelaw-covered areas and clarify whether the car park at Horfield Leisure Centre is included within those boundaries.

Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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andybristol

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2025, 01:09:07 pm »
Unsure whether this is useful


b789

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2025, 01:27:21 pm »
Looks like it may be within a designated area but unless you can proved suitable evidence, it doesn't matter what I think. Get in touch with the council and confirm it or find the missing map that was supposed to go with the byelaws.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

andybristol

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2025, 01:30:24 pm »
The council are hopeless...no phones picked up and I assume an email response will take weeks

Charitynjw

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2025, 02:14:58 pm »
The council are hopeless...no phones picked up and I assume an email response will take weeks

It's got to be worth a serious punt....not just for you, but for other users of the car park.

@b789 Thanks for that  :)

andybristol

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2025, 02:17:55 pm »
Which department would cover this issue?

Charitynjw

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2025, 02:18:28 pm »
Duplicated post
« Last Edit: April 16, 2025, 02:59:59 pm by Charitynjw »

andybristol

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2025, 02:25:53 pm »
Just posted an FOI. Quick reply would be necessary for me to use this info in my appeal

andybristol

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2025, 02:28:52 pm »
Currently on hold on a call with BCC

Charitynjw

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Re: PCNat Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol issued by Civil Enforcement
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2025, 02:33:12 pm »
Just posted an FOI. Quick reply would be necessary for me to use this info in my appeal

Write (1st class post) to CEL & request that it's put on hold pending the council's response.
Invoke the new single CoP 8.4.1(c) Exceptional circumstances.  8)
Get a free certificate of posting, & keep a copy.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2025, 02:35:07 pm by Charitynjw »