Author Topic: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17  (Read 5876 times)

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Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
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Another PCN picked up by my friend.  ::)
Says he's parked there in the past with no problems  :o  ::)
The perils of running a business in London.

GSV  Buts it's way of date (2016)




« Last Edit: February 16, 2025, 10:02:01 am by Glitch »

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Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #1 on: »
Is there an entrance sign to the location warning drivers that it is private land and that parking is controlled and that terms and conditions apply?

Can you get photos of the sign without using flash as the operator has done in their evidential photos? It would appear that their signs could not form a contract if they are unlit or high up on the wall at the time of night.

The NtK does appear to be PoFA compliant except for the "period of parking" which is not stated, even though their evidential photos show the vehicle in situ for 8 minutes and 30 seconds. The NtK is required to state the "period of parking and not simply a moment in time. Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions (2023) applies.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks.
He's going to try to get photos.

What's the deadline before losing the 'discount'?

Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #3 on: »
If you're only interested in the "mugs discount" I won't be wasting any more of my time. You either believe that the PCN has been issued unfairly and you are prepared to fight it with our assistance or save us the waste of time if you are only interested in being scammed into paying a speculative invoice because it offers a 40% "mugs discount".

The discount period expired 14 days after the NtK was issued, two days ago on Valentines day.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #4 on: »
Just interested to know the milestones.

Wasn't sure if it was 20th/21st/22nd. Notice given 7th.

He didn't actually receive it in the post until 14th.

Wondering if he needs a deadline to get the photos, which might conclude the signage is fine (although it does look high up and not lit)

I'm not familiar with the Private PCN process so the assistance on here is always appreciated.

Council PCNs sometimes have no hope of success at Tribunal so the advice might be to pay up.

If Private PCNs are still viewed as speculative invoices then I guess it's a case of being prepared to go to small claims court which we were, on a previous case.




Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #5 on: »
The mugs discount period is 14 days from the date the PCN is issued. The appeal and debt recovery deadlines are 28 days from the deemed date of receipt which is normally 2 working days after the issue date.

The NtK shown is compliant with regards to PoFA 9(4)(b).

If there is doubt that the PoFA deadline was compliant such that the actual date of posting (the date the notice was physically entered into the postal system) is disputed, the operator is obliged to evidence a proof of posting certificate or other acceptable evidence from a mail consolidator of the actual date.

Simply proving that the notice was generated on a particular date is not enough. Also, a certificate of posting through a hybrid mail system is not proof of the date the notice entered the postal system.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #6 on: »
The PCN says discount period starts from date postal notification is given, 7th Feb. Same in previous private PCN he got.

Sounds like they probably can't prove date of posting. Might be useful later I guess.

As an aside the OCRphosphor printing on the envelope contains date and time the sorting office first read it (still not date of posting), but they don't publish how to decode it.

Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #7 on: »
The PPSCoP states that the discount period is from the issue date of the PCN. If the operator wants to extend that to 14 days from the date the notice is "given", that is their prerogative. It cannot be any less than 14 days from the issue date.

The PPSCoP states in section 8.1.2(e) Note 2: "A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose, “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales. Therefore, parking operators must retain a record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g. the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system.)" (My emphasis)

So, the operator is required under the PPSCoP to retain an evidential record of the date the notice was physically put into the postal system. Whilst most will not have this evidence and instead try to rely on a "certificate of posting" generated by their own internal system that links to the third-party Mail Consolidator which will only show the date and time that the notice was sent through hybrid mail system to the consolidator. It is not a "proof of posting certificate" or evidence of any sort tat is acceptable.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #8 on: »
Photos as requested.
Obviously these were taken in daylight.
There doesn't appear to be any illumination of the signs.









Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #9 on: »
It would be even better if you could get photos of the signs after dark, without any flash or headlights illuminating them. Also, they need to appear as you would see them from several feet away.

The point is to show that the signs are not prominent at the time that the alleged contravention took place. There is a requirement for the signs to "adequately" bring the charge to the notice of the driver. If it was dark and the signs are unlit, how does the sign "adequately" bring the charge to the notice of the driver?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #10 on: »
So he took these last night. He assures me no flash. The signs are along the arches with a large building on the other side of the narrow road. He said there were lights but I believe it's light from the building.  Edit: there's clearly some lights amongst the arches.

As far as I can make out there are no signs on the building, only on the walls at the end of the building.

Visibility on the day he got the ticket seemed a lot worse. Weather and maybe less lights on in the building. Edit: Arch lights off?











« Last Edit: February 18, 2025, 05:37:12 pm by Glitch »

Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #11 on: »
This is a more up to date GSV. He was parked by the railings. There is a new sign on the left hand wall. None on the railings.

Another GSV

Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #12 on: »
That's the problem with modern smartphone cameras. They enhance the shot automatically. It would have been better if you'd been able to switch off all the automatic enhancement.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #13 on: »
We're not going to get the same conditions for the time the PCN was issued. It was raining/drizzling as can be seen on their evidence photos.

Are we aiming for 'balance of probability' in front of a judge?

Is either the date of posting or parking duration a clincher?

Or in short, what is the strategy for this one?


Re: Parking Control Management - Robert Dashwood Way - SE17
« Reply #14 on: »
Don't worry too much. The initial appeal is going to be rejected, as will any IAS secondary appeal, if you even bother with that kangaroo court.

Eventually, you will receive s count claim from PCM through a bulk litigation company. There claim will be defended and eventually, it will either be struck-out or discontinued. Less than 1% of defended claims ever get as far as a hearing if our advice is followed.

Having evidential photos that can be used to enhance an argument are useful to have in your back pocket. It is extremely unlikely you would need to use them in a Witness Statement. However, it is better have them and not need to use them than not. It is unlikely to affect how this case would go.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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