Good evening all, im hoping to get some help with an Iceland parking ticket that was issued via ANPR. I was not the driver. The alleged contravention took place on 15/12/2023 when the car was parked from 19:40 to 21:42 (121 minutes and also after the store had closed), however the NTK was issued on 10/01/2024 (more than the 14 days later). The NTK has quoted the "contravention reason" as
101) failure to purchase the parking tariff for the registration mark of the vehicle on site and/or within the time allowed - The maximum period allowed at this site is 0 minutes.
The company is Excel Parking and the amount of the charge was £100 and they did quote the reduction to £60 if paid within 14 days.
I declined to name the driver and appealed the PCN stating that keeper liability had not been met and quoted POFA 2012.
My appeal was rejected and so i appealed to the IAS in line with their process. After several weeks of backwards and forwards and me providing overwhelming evidence that i was not the driver - i provided a copy of my google maps history which showed i was in a very far away location, and i provided images of myself and friends celebrating a birthday at a restaurant on the same day. I even provided proof of a parking ticket purchased at the same restaurant by myself, but this was not acceptable and the IAS ruled in favour of the parking company and stated that i was the driver.
I have since received 3 debt collection letters (dbcl) dated 20/06/2024, 10/07/2024 and 09/08/2024.
I have also requested proof from the DVLA that my information was requested by the parking company with regards to the alleged parking contravention, and i was provided a copy of all the data requests pertaining to that particular car, and there is no entry relating to this alleged contravention. Does this mean that they have unlawfully attained my data, and are they in breach of sharing my data with the dbcl and also in breach of their code of conduct with the DVLA?
At this point the charge is now £170.
I am just about to write to the debt collectors and advise them that keeper liability was not met and therefore there is no debt and that they should desist from harassing me.
If this was to go to court, what chance do i have of success please? Any support for a damsel in distress, as it is causing a great deal of stress and anxiety.
(4)The notice [to keeper] must be given by—
...
(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.
(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.
I have also requested proof from the DVLA that my information was requested by the parking company with regards to the alleged parking ...and there is no entry relating to this alleged contravention..
The alleged contravention took place on 15/12/2023 when the car was parked from 19:40 to 21:42 (121 minutes and also after the store had closed), however the NTK was issued on 10/01/2024 (more than the 14 days later).
Rather points to you not being the keeper.....but that you were the hirer!(Excel would have obtained the hire company's details from DVLA and yours from the hirer) and the time limits are amended.
So, before going further was the car hired?
If so, forget all about what you've tried to discover on your own and tell us precisely what initial documents you received from Excel.
If it wasn't hired then I'm surprised you've gone to the lengths you have because the NTK was not served in time and has no effect. However, they are free to pursue you as the driver, that's their choice.
So pl post:
The initial notice;
IAS's decision.
See forum FAQs, do not post direct into the thread.
Well, the OP fell for that one. What on earth were you doing trying to prove you were not the driver? The burden of proof is on the operator to prove you were the driver. Unless you tell them, inadvertently or otherwise, how do you imagine they can do that?
Hire car or no hire car, unless the driver is identified, they have nowhere to go with this. Even if it was a hire car, they will not have complied with all the requirements of PoFA.
Ignore all debt collector letters and come back if they send you a Letter of Claim (LoC).
What on earth were you doing trying to prove you were not the driver?
Please don't speak to posters like that. Telling people they ought to act differently in future is fine, chastising them for actions they have already taken is not.
The burden of proof is on the operator to prove you were the driver.
Indeed, although if you have evidence that you were
not the driver, presenting it isn't unwise. In fact, if Excel were daft enough to take this to court, the OP would be able to make a reasonable argument that Excel have behaved unreasonably in pursuing someone who they know was not the driver, having been provided evidence of the same.
Anyway, OP, as HC mentions above, we could do with seeing the relevant documents here, and also confirming your relationship to the vehicle. If they do issue a Letter of Claim, we'll be able to advise on defending it. If they use DCB Legal, then there's a decent chance it'll be discontinued.
@H C Andersen,
Thank you for the input. The car was not a hire car, but i was the registered keeper. I was not the driver.
AS this forum is all new to me, i am trying to navigate the option to upload the document images to Imgur. Please bear with me.
(4)The notice [to keeper] must be given by—
...
(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.
(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.
I have also requested proof from the DVLA that my information was requested by the parking company with regards to the alleged parking ...and there is no entry relating to this alleged contravention..
The alleged contravention took place on 15/12/2023 when the car was parked from 19:40 to 21:42 (121 minutes and also after the store had closed), however the NTK was issued on 10/01/2024 (more than the 14 days later).
Rather points to you not being the keeper.....but that you were the hirer!(Excel would have obtained the hire company's details from DVLA and yours from the hirer) and the time limits are amended.
So, before going further was the car hired?
If so, forget all about what you've tried to discover on your own and tell us precisely what initial documents you received from Excel.
If it wasn't hired then I'm surprised you've gone to the lengths you have because the NTK was not served in time and has no effect. However, they are free to pursue you as the driver, that's their choice.
So pl post:
The initial notice;
IAS's decision.
See forum FAQs, do not post direct into the thread
@H C Andersen,
Thank you for the input. The car was not a hire car, but i was the registered keeper. I was not the driver.
As this forum is all new to me, i am trying to navigate the option to upload the document images to Imgur. Please bear with me.
Good evening all contributors.
After several attempts by a not so savvy tech failure, i think i have conquered it! i hope the images displayed below as a link will take you to the uploaded documents on Imgur .... she says
https://imgur.com/a/P1qwbT5
So, their notice is incapable of holding you liable for the charge as the registered keeper. They know this, as their notice states they'll be pursuing you on the 'assumption' that you were the driver. Because you have categorically stated you were not the driver, and even offered evidence to support this, any assumption you were the driver is clearly an unreasonable one, and if they have any sense they'll not try and take this to court.
Parking companies, however, rarely have sense, so they may well try. As b789 said above, keep your eye out for a Letter of Claim. If they issue one, come back here for support. If you move house before the matter is concluded (they have 6 years from the date of parking to make a claim), write to them to inform them of your new address. The last thing you want is for them to secure a default judgement by issuing a claim to an old address.
@DWMB2Thank you for your response and your vote of confidence. I read some guidance on p**** cowboys (not sure if i can mention them here) that i should send an email to the debt collectors advising them to stop harassing me as keeper liability had not been met.
Would you suggest i do that, or will this fall on deaf ears?
Furthermore, there is the issue of how Excel obtained my keeper details as DVLA have not provided them to this parking company as there was no request for them. Is there anything i can do about this?
To be honest i just want it to all go away.
Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.
I also forgot tom mention that a couple of weeks ago i received a call from a witheld number. They did not introduce themselves but addressed me by my full name in a very antagonising manner. they then asked if i was at the same address, at which point i questioned who they were but they declined to say. When i made it clear i would not confirm anything without them identifying themselves the person stated that they would get one of their officers to call me back and terminated the call. this really angered me. Needless to say no one has contacted me since.
I suspect it had something to do with this PCN as there is nothing else untoward in my life.
I wouldn't contact debt collectors at all, it is a futile exercise.
Furthermore, there is the issue of how Excel obtained my keeper details as DVLA have not provided them to this parking company as there was no request for them. Is there anything i can do about this?
Are you able to share a redacted version of the DVLA's response to your subject access request? They must have got the details from somewhere, and if it wasn't the DVLA, I'm struggling to think of where. Have you had any parking charges from Excel before?
Another thing to check, just to rule it out, is any V5C issues. Can you check your V5C document for the car, and check that the details are all correct, and that the document issue date is before the date of the parking event? The issue date is in the bottom corner of the inside page, as illustrated here:
Hi there - i have uploaded a redacted copy of the SAR provided by the DVLA pertaining to the vehicle in question. Please see the link below.
I also sold the same vehicle on 19/12/2024 - 4 days after the alleged contravention. Unsure how the keeper details are requested from DVLA.
https://imgur.com/a/oiYFMuyI am looking for a copy of the VSC.
How unusual - the only thing I can think (which shouldn't be the case) is that they have only given you requests made before you sold the car. The requests are made via the KADOE service, that stands for Keeper of a Vehicle at the Date of an Event, so even if a request was made after you ceased to be the keeper, if the date of the relevant event was when you were the keeper, it would return your details.
You could try a SAR to Excel - you could ask for all data, but make a point of specifying that they should provide data relating to their acquiring of your details from DVLA.
Don't lose focus on the main issue, however. The data access issue is largely a side-show, your main priority will be defending any claim, if one is made.
I read some guidance on p**** cowboys
Parking cowboys' advice is now hopelessly out of date and not maintained, I wouldn't go there for anything on private parking at all.
As DWMB2 says, just ignore (but file) anything from debt collectors (aka 'scary sounding letter writers').
Private parking companies request 'Keeper At Date Of Event' (KADOE) from DVLA, so it should have returned your details as the keeper on that date even if they didn't request the details until after you were no longer keeper (assuming they did it correctly - it wouldn't surprise me if some were lazy and used enquiry date and not event date in their request).