3. EURO CAR PARKS LIMED - DCBL
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cdowning

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EURO CAR PARKS LIMED - DCBL
« on: October 31, 2024, 06:50:28 pm »
Hi

My son parked in a car park and says he did enter the car registration at the bar but I received fines from Euro Car Parks Limited.  The car was his but registered in my name so the fines are too.  I have since transferred the car into his name, some months ago and am unsure whether he still has the car.  When he left home he took all his paperwork with him, I knew he hadn't paid the fine but I was leaving it to him to deal with.

2 weeks ago I received a Notice of Debt Recovery from DCBL.  I emailed and told them that I was not the driver but received a reply saying it was too late to appeal.  Today I received a final reminder from DCBL with the amount to pay £145. 

The pub where he parked has now shut down.  What can/should I do?

I have read to ignore it and even if it goes to court the fine will be £200 so its worth a gamble, but this has happened to me previously and I did receive court papers and ended up paying as advised on a forum that it was too late to ignore, I can't remember how much but it was more than £145.
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b789

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Re: EURO CAR PARKS LIMED - DCBL
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2024, 12:19:53 am »
What “fine”? Where does it say anywhere on the Notice to Keeper (NtK) that you have been “fined”?

It is a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking company with no authority to “fine” anyone. They are simply alleging that the driver broke the terms of a contract by conduct.

Show us the NtK and we will advise on how to handle this. Yes, it is most likely to go all the way to a claim in the county court and will be for ~£200 but nobody pays this if they’re here getting advice.

I will give odds of 100:1 that if you follow the advice, they will eventually discontinue.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2024, 10:13:54 am by b789 »
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DWMB2

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Re: EURO CAR PARKS LIMED - DCBL
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2024, 10:04:13 am »
For completeness, given this situation, another option is to name your son as the driver, providing his name and address. He will (or should) then get a PCN in his own name, and is free to challenge it if he wishes, and could of course seek support here, too. Whether you do this depends on whether your priority is getting ECP of your back with as little effort on your part as possible, or if you're prepared for a bit more work on your part to avoid your son ending up in their crosshairs.
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Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice

cdowning

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Re: EURO CAR PARKS LIMED - DCBL
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2024, 04:02:56 pm »
Hi Thanks, I did email DCBL giving my son's deatails but they said it was too late.
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cdowning

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Re: EURO CAR PARKS LIMED - DCBL
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2024, 04:10:40 pm »
Quote from: DWMB2 on November 01, 2024, 10:04:13 am
For completeness, given this situation, another option is to name your son as the driver, providing his name and address. He will (or should) then get a PCN in his own name, and is free to challenge it if he wishes, and could of course seek support here, too. Whether you do this depends on whether your priority is getting ECP of your back with as little effort on your part as possible, or if you're prepared for a bit more work on your part to avoid your son ending up in their crosshairs.

Hi

Please find attached the letters received, probably very familiar.
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b789

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Re: EURO CAR PARKS LIMED - DCBL
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2024, 04:52:16 pm »
You have shown us a debt collector letter. We do not need to see those and you should ignore all debt collector letters and reminders. They are powerless to do anything and can be safely ignored.

The only document we are interested in is the original Notice to Keeper (NtK). Any reminder NtK is of no use.

As you've already received a debt collector letter, there is no opportunity to appeal and it would be futile anyway. Just do a search for ECP on the forum and have a read of any multitude of recent threads on how to proceed with this.

Regarding transferring liability to the driver will depend on whether the NtK was PoFA compliant. If it wasn't, then liability can be transferred up to the point a court claim is issued.

If it was compliant, under PoFA the keeper has 28 days from the day after the NtK is "given" to provide the operator with the full name and current address of the driver to effectively transfer liability. After this period, the parking operator can hold the keeper liable for the charge, and they are under no obligation to accept a late transfer of liability.

As it is an ECP PCN, they have issued it under PoFA even though there are technical errors that could invalidate that. However, it is a moot point as long as the advice given here is followed.
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DWMB2

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Re: EURO CAR PARKS LIMED - DCBL
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2024, 05:13:42 pm »
Quote from: b789 on November 04, 2024, 04:52:16 pm
If it was compliant, under PoFA the keeper has 28 days from the day after the NtK is "given" to provide the operator with the full name and current address of the driver to effectively transfer liability. After this period, the parking operator can hold the keeper liable for the charge, and they are under no obligation to accept a late transfer of liability.
I think I would take a different view.

Paragraph 4 of PoFA states that:

4(1)The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle.

(2)The right under this paragraph applies only if—

(a)the conditions specified in paragraphs 5, 6, 11 and 12 (so far as applicable) are met

Parapraph 5 states:
5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—

(a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but

(b)is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.

(2)Sub-paragraph (1)(b) ceases to apply if (at any time after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given) the creditor begins proceedings to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper.

I believe the part I have highlighted in bold is important here. 'Proceedings' are not defined in the wording of PoFA, but I would argue that this would be widely understood to mean County Court proceedings. I personally think one could convincingly argue that instructing a debt collector does not constitute beginning proceedings. 5(1)(b) does not cease to apply immediately after the 28 day period, only when proceedings are begun, which may happen at any time after said 28 days.

If the keeper provides the driver's details at any point before 'proceedings' have begun, then Paragraph 5(1)(b) would cease to be the case, as the creditor would be able to take steps to enforce against the driver.

Quote
However, it is a moot point as long as the advice given here is followed.
Agreed - so probably not worth too much technical discussion here, although more broadly I think the above is an important distinction.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2024, 05:20:31 pm by DWMB2 »
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Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice

b789

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Re: EURO CAR PARKS LIMED - DCBL
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2024, 05:31:42 pm »
I agree with you. I don't know what I was thinking. However as you have pointed out, it is a matter of interpretation that will make no difference to the outcome.

It just depends if you want to waste a whole lot of time and effort trying to persuade ECP that their interpretation of what "proceedings" actually mean.
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DWMB2

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Re: EURO CAR PARKS LIMED - DCBL
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2024, 05:36:38 pm »
Quote from: b789 on November 04, 2024, 05:31:42 pm
It just depends if you want to waste a whole lot of time and effort trying to persuade ECP that their interpretation of what "proceedings" actually mean.
I certainly wouldn't bother in this case - the main reason I wrote the previous post was in case others are reading this thread in future in cases where naming the driver might be beneficial, and think they've missed the boat.
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cdowning

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Re: EURO CAR PARKS LIMED - DCBL
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2024, 05:59:45 pm »
This is all very confusing, so what should I do? 
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DWMB2

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Re: EURO CAR PARKS LIMED - DCBL
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2024, 06:03:01 pm »
Assuming you're happy to carry on dealing with the matter, essentially, do nothing. Wait and see if you receive a Letter Of Claim. If you receive such a letter, return here for advice.
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Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice

b789

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Re: EURO CAR PARKS LIMED - DCBL
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2024, 06:19:35 pm »
Nobody pays a penny to ECP if you follow the advice. If you need evidence, have a read of this thread over on MSE to see what happens to claims issued by DCB Legal that are defended. You could put a nursery rhyme as your defence and it will be discontinued.

DCB LEGAL RECORD OF PRIVATE PARKING COURT CLAIM DISCONTINUATIONS
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