Author Topic: Drivers received fine but can't find offence  (Read 893 times)

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Drivers received fine but can't find offence
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Driver who is the registered keeper entered petrol station with designated parking for non fuellers (subway etc are in the same court). Driver was in the vehicle at all times and no evidence of any other individual provided by company.

Please find attached images below

https://imgur.com/a/L11GPam

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Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #1 on: »
Welcome to FTLA.

To help us provide the best advice, please read the following thread carefully and provide as much of the information it asks for as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide

Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #2 on: »
Please find letter received

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Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #3 on: »
3. Post the notice(s) you have received – as well as providing important context, the notices may contain/omit details that can be used to help you successfully fight the charge. Upload photos of any and all notices you have received from the parking company. You should show us all pages of the notice(s), remove personal details (name/address, PCN reference number, Vehicle Registration Mark), but show us all dates and times. Details that you think are trivial could help you win, so don’t leave anything out.
As above, we need to see the whole notice, with dates and times etc. Just obscure your name, address, PCN reference # and VRM.

Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #4 on: »
Hi,

I've added the full letter above but will add here

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Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #5 on: »
Apologies and thanks for your patience. Is this sufficient? There is nothing on the back of the letter.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2025, 02:42:58 pm by DWMB2 »

Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #6 on: »
Hilarious! Not PoFA compliant and no evidence to back up the alleged contravention! Please get it out of your head that this is a "fine" or that any "offence" has been committed. If you can find either of those words in the Notice to Keeper (NtK), I will personally give you £100 for each occurrence.

The Keeper of the vehicle has received a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking firm for an alleged breach of contract by the driver. They have no idea who the driver is unless you blab it to them, inadvertently or otherwise. Don't tell 'em your name Pike!

No appeal, no matter how obvious that the Keeper cannot be liable, will not succeed. Even the secondary appeal to the IAS will not work because they are nit truly independent and are another tentacle of the scam. However, you still have to go through the motions but this will be a protracted affair and you will not be paying a penny to these scammers if you follow the advice.

So, to go through the motions, you first have to appeal, only as the Keeper. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. UPE has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. UPE have no hope should you be stupid enough to try and litigate, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Come back when they reject it for the IAS appeal wording to use.

Oh, and please edit your opening post to remove the blabbing of the drivers identity! Never EVER, EVER, EVER identify the driver. Only refer to the driver in the third person. No "I did this or that", only "the driver did this or that"! A classic example of how to blab the drivers identity!
« Last Edit: July 21, 2025, 03:16:17 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #7 on: »
Event was 15 May but the NtK is dated 9 July for starters...

The wording is mixed but I guess doesn't overstep the mark claiming the keeper is liable.

Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #8 on: »
Hilarious! Not PoFA compliant and no evidence to back up the alleged contravention! Please get it out of your head that this is a "fine" or that any "offence" has been committed. If you can find either of those words in the Notice to Keeper (NtK), I will personally give you £100 for each occurrence.

The Keeper of the vehicle has received a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking firm for an alleged breach of contract by the driver. They have no idea who the driver is unless you blab it to them, inadvertently or otherwise. Don't tell 'em your name Pike!

No appeal, no matter how obvious that the Keeper cannot be liable, will not succeed. Even the secondary appeal to the IAS will not work because they are nit truly independent and are another tentacle of the scam. However, you still have to go through the motions but this will be a protracted affair and you will not be paying a penny to these scammers if you follow the advice.

So, to go through the motions, you first have to appeal, only as the Keeper. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. UPE has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. UPE have no hope should you be stupid enough to try and litigate, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Come back when they reject it for the IAS appeal wording to use.

Oh, and please edit your opening post to remove the blabbing of the drivers identity! Never EVER, EVER, EVER identify the driver. Only refer to the driver in the third person. No "I did this or that", only "the driver did this or that"! A classic example of how to blab the drivers identity!

This is great, thank you so much and will update this once I receive a response.

Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #9 on: »
Event was 15 May but the NtK is dated 9 July for starters...

The wording is mixed but I guess doesn't overstep the mark claiming the keeper is liable.

Will the tiemframe of alleged offence and notice be an issue for them?

Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #10 on: »
Yes, as explained by b789

Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #11 on: »
Interesting spin on the usual parking scams, how do they know the alleged driver and or passengers left the premises? That must involve some full time person reviewing hours and hours of CcTV everyday just to identify potential victims!

Crikey!
« Last Edit: July 21, 2025, 04:17:30 pm by Ducato »

Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #12 on: »
Even if they have CCTV, they have no idea of the identity of the person they are observing. It's simply not possible to know. There is no magical unicorn database you can feed an image of someone into and it will simply spit out the identity of that person with their personal details and address! The person observed in the drivers seat could be anyone!

Then try and get around breaches of GDPR by trying to identify someone forensically from CCTV if you are not the police.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #13 on: »
It's not an 'offence'...  :)

Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
« Reply #14 on: »
So, they've come up with your standard template response despite providing no evidence anyone left the premises

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« Last Edit: July 26, 2025, 07:46:01 pm by Nufc1993 »