3. UKPC
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Re: UKPC
« Reply #15 on: »
This gets worse,it looks like i am now in for the long haul. Notice was dated 16 April
It was recieved on 18th April. I went to pay the discounted charge just now and was rather peeved that it is now 80.00.
surely it should be 14 days from delivery?

Anyway, Could someone please give a quick once over on the intial appeal to UKPC,which no doubt they will throw out, and offer any advice if it should be amended when i appeal to popla and would it bbe worth any extra weight on adding copmments about the no stopping sign not offering a contract, which is on a separate board 20 yards away 


INITIAL APPEAL TO UKPC
On leaving the site .the safety belt warning light was activated. The driver stopped  to check the reason why and following  checks  that the belt was now securely attached and light extinguished proceeded.
I, as the registered keeper feel that as this was a safety issue and to drive the car in such a condition that contravened the various Road traffic Acts would not be the course of action.Luckily in lersds than a minute the situation was rectified and the driver then proceeded off the site.
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Re: UKPC
« Reply #16 on: »
`As expected the appeal was thrown out, and i got a letter requea]sting more information. I could do no better that repaet my intial appeal.
Yesterday another refusal arrived and it advised that if i wish to appeal i need to get a reference number from popla.
On looking at a popla page it seems that i have to get this from UKPC

Who is correct?

Secondly  on the polpa site it mentions various appeals and one includes signs

As DWMB2 noted earlier would this be worth adding it to the popla appeal on  'no clear offer of contract' as a secondary appeal and would the fact than when the car stopped opposite the sign, it  cound not be read from the drivers position. Is it worth returning to the site and getting more pics and also the relative height of the sign?

Any assistance gratefully accepted

Thanks
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Re: UKPC
« Reply #17 on: »
Post the letters you’re talking about, please.
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Re: UKPC
« Reply #18 on: »
My apologies
The replies were on email and i was in a bit of a rush reading it. they have supplied a popla ref. On second reading it is in the top rh corner!  no wonder i missed it
Do you still wish to see them?
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Re: UKPC
« Reply #19 on: »
I don’t personally want to see them, but as a general rule if you want advice on something you’ve received you need to show it to us!

You need to construct a POPLA appeal. You may want to consider https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/Sector%20Code%20Templates/sectorsingleCodeofPracticeVersion1.1130426-2.pdf
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Re: UKPC
« Reply #20 on: »
copy of rejection letters from ukpc. the reverse is the sasme hence only one uploaded

EPSON019 hosted at ImgBB
Image EPSON019 in the ukpc album
ImgBB · ibb.co

EPSON020 hosted at ImgBB
Image EPSON020 in the ukpc album
ImgBB · ibb.co

EPSON021 hosted at ImgBB
Image EPSON021 in the ukpc album
ImgBB · ibb.co


Whilst the stopping   is the main appeal point,on looking at the pictures of the signs posted earlier that one 'offers a contract' by reason of No parking on Roadway

However the second picture that says bo stopping does not mention a fee payable for stopping.

Also the signs are well above the eyeline of a driver passing and certainly out of site if parked adjacent to then if viewing through the passenger window.

Would it be worth revisiting the site to get more pictures and dimensions etc i cannot remember seeing signes on the entrance side of the road ,nor further down

Would this side appeal add any weight to the main one, especially if the first fails, we have this sineage issue to fall back on, as signage appeals are specifically mentioned on the popla website.
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Re: UKPC
« Reply #21 on: »
Just what they would like you to do perhaps when you get a work person to charge you £80 a minute then you may consider that. A perfectly winnable case but your choice you can see how the company profits grow.
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Re: UKPC
« Reply #22 on: »
Yes i want to appeal

I will pop down to the Hospital and tske copious pics

One question  i have seen on other appeals that the parking oc sends in an evidence pack.

will this be more pictures video etc ,as on the initial letter it tells me further pictures srsw available, but on checking there was only one and that was of the reg plate!
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Re: UKPC
« Reply #23 on: »
Here are pics i took this morning. you will note that there is only one notice on the way in but 4 ( 2 duplicates] on exit The bottom of the notices are 5ft and 7ft respectively and cannot be seen clearly from a vehicle.
It was considered earlier on here that they are wanting, if so is it worth adding these as  second item in the appeal  and what would be the best way of putting it?

At the moment i only have the seatbelt reason,and two letters to UKPC has been rejected

Unfortunately i cannot see any way of padding it out perhaps someone more experienced could suggest something  Here is what i am writing in the appeal


I am appealing this charge on the following grounds
The reason for the temporary stop was that the seatbelt warning sysmbol appeared on the dashboard...see photos showing normal and not connected pics of  information panel.  The car was halted and a check made of the connection and  subsequently the screen showed normal.
I am sure you will agree that the driver did not wish to proceed in a vehicle that was not compliant with the various road traffic acts,and having i sufficient prtection in the case of an accident on the public highway.
In addition as noted in the originsl invoice this action was no more that one nimute and would request that the appeals board consider cancelling the charge on the grounds of 'de minimus'

Then if the notices has some possibilty in either wording and positioning this would be item 2

I look forwrd to any suggestions, amendments, additions you amy wish to add.


10 hosted at ImgBB
Image 10 in the new pics album
ImgBB · ibb.co

close up of sign hosted at ImgBB
Image close up of sign in the new pics album
ImgBB · ibb.co

first sign of 4 on exit hosted at ImgBB
Image first sign of 4 on exit in the new pics album
ImgBB · ibb.co

first sign passed on exit hosted at ImgBB
Image first sign passed on exit in the new pics album
ImgBB · ibb.co

only sign on way in hosted at ImgBB
Image only sign on way in in the new pics album
ImgBB · ibb.co

https://ibb.co/DPD8K03s
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https://ibb.co/6c2t4HTb
https://ibb.co/FqwX3J4K


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Re: UKPC
« Reply #24 on: »
I am now in the process of comping my appeal and the first draft is below

Would appreciate comment and suggestions on it



As the registered keeper i am appealing against the parking notice issued bt UKPC  at  xxxxxxx on the xxxxxx
You will note that the alleged stopping was for a period of one minute.
 This was due to the fact that as the driver was leaving the hospital site the seat belt light illuminated to signify the belt was not securely fastened, This was checked as the driver was not prepared to drive on a main road without the vehicle being compliant with the various Road Traffic Acts,.and after confirming all was now well they proceed onto the main road. Their personal safety being paramount.
I offer that this alone is enough to warrant the charge to be dismissed and as well as the vehicle was stopped for not more than one minute, ‘de minimus’ could be offered.
Further reading of the Code of practice reveals several anomalies that UKPC have not, in my opinon adhered to.
 These are
2.15 Grace period and  Consideration periods. A  recommendation of 5mins to read signs. In order to accept or reject the conditions. Whilst this only mentions car parks it would be prudent to include other signs such as those displayed and i would claim that any stoppage to rectify a minor fault of the vehicle should also be taken into consideration. However  to do so here, with the tenacity that UKPC have shown, puts a driver is in a catch 22 situation if he wished to check on the conditions as by stopping to read the sign if only for one minute, he falls fouls of the restrictions especially as the main sign is sited over 7ft from the ground, and the interim signs are 5ft
3.1 signs section 3.1.3 (c) the sign advising  no stopping does not comply as it does not show who the operator is  and no contact details in fact it gives the impression that this is a NHS issued notice and they will raise a charge
(d) not displaying the logo of the ATA
In view of the fact that an adjacent sign may well be complaint this could be taken as an interim repeater sign.
3.1.4  the details concerning a parking charge is not in a font of comparable size
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Re: UKPC
« Reply #25 on: »
“de minimis” to be picky, it’s ablative plural …… de minimis non curat lex.
Latin O Level 1977.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:15:17 pm by jfollows »
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Re: UKPC
« Reply #26 on: »
Can you be as picky on my earlier posting regarding the appeal?    lol
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Re: UKPC
« Reply #27 on: »
I'd be more detailed and more structured. The POPLA assessor is coming into this with no prior knowledge of the event. Separate each point under clear headings, and walk the assessor through exactly why each point is correct. Where possible, refer explicitly to the Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice to back up your points.

As I see it, your main points are:

  • The vehicle was not parked: under this point are several arguments: a brief stop owing due to a vehicle issue is not 'parking'; the stop was of such brief duration that no contract could have been formed - reference the consideration period specified by the Code of Practice here
  • The signage is 'forbidding': a contract required several elements to be legally valid, including an offer and valuable consideration. The signage you have shown us only prohibits parking. How can a sign that says "Strictly No Parking" communicate a contractual offer to park? What valuable consideration is being offered by UKPC? It's not making an offer to park on certain terms.
  • Even if a contract was created (which is denied), it was frustrated: as per point #1, your main argument is no contract was formed as the vehicle wasn't parked. But, you can argue that even if the assessor took the view that the vehicle was parked and a contract was formed, the only reason the terms of said contract were breached is because of a vehicle fault. As this is outside of the control of both parties, and therefore the contract was frustrated.
  • Placement and prominence of signage: support any such points with photos showing the insufficiency of the signage
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  3. UKPC