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Messages - LemonTootski

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1
Cool, you are a Gladiator, @Hippocrates !

So, what do you think of this for an appeal to adjudicators?

I am appealing the Notice of Rejection (NOR) dated 21/11/2025 on the ground that the contravention did not legally occur, because the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) is invalid due to statutory non-compliance, and the Council failed to properly consider or address my representation points.

1. Failure to Consider (Procedural Impropriety)
The NOR entirely fails to address the specific, legal, collateral challenge I raised in my representation. The NOR simply focused on the factual details of the contravention (stopping in the box junction) and the driver’s responsibility, but did not once mention or provide a finding on my core arguments:

The PCN is non-compliant with the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 (LLATFLA 2003) regarding mandatory information.

The PCN misstates the legal period for payment running from "date of service" instead of the statutory "date of the notice," which I argued is prejudicial.

The PCN contains contradictory instructions on selecting grounds for representation, leading to procedural unfairness.

The Council’s rejection amounts to a Failure to Consider the material points of my representation, which is a procedural impropriety and a separate ground for appeal that renders the NOR fundamentally flawed.

2. PCN is Invalid Due to Statutory Non-Compliance
My underlying legal challenge remains unrefuted and valid:

Misstatement of Statutory Time Limit: The PCN states the increased charge may be payable 28 days from the "date of service." The governing legislation (LLATFLA 2003 s.4(8)(iii)) stipulates this period runs from the "date of the notice." This misstatement of the legal position is material and prejudicial, as established in numerous previous Adjudicator rulings.

Contradictory Instructions: I argued the PCN contained contradictory instructions regarding representation grounds (stating "one or more" may apply, then directing to "Please tick one of the set grounds"). This ambiguity prevents proper compliance with statutory rights and constitutes a procedural defect that voids the Notice.

Given the Council's complete failure to engage with these material, legal points in their Notice of Rejection, I request that the Adjudicator allow this appeal on the basis of procedural impropriety and the underlying invalidity of the PCN itself.

2
Hi @Hippocrates / or anyone else.

Sorry to bother you, but I have a payment deadline of Wed 3 Dec.

Just wondering if you have any advice for this one?

thanks

3
Failure to consider. Yor money, of course, but I would take it to the Tribunal. BTW I have 3 of my own live at present.

Sorry, i'm not legal, but my layman's brain assumes that i should take this to tribunal based on the grounds they Failure to consider or take into account relevant information or arguments presented to then regarding the procedural error ?

Am i correct in assuming this?

And how do i take it to tribunal? just leave it/ ignore them until i get a court summons? Do i now deliberately not respond to their action within 14/28 days?

Can you please advise in a tad more detail. I'd really appreciate it.

4
Hi

Just wondered if anyone had any advice about this?

Thanks

5
Hi @Hippocrates. Still wonder if you caught shingles in the end ?!?
And hi @cp8759 and @Chaseman.


Just keeping you updated with this case.

Today I received this response to my representation. IT'S QUITE FUNNY. If you read their response letter, I don't think they've addressed my points made in any way shape or form regarding:

a)  I make this collateral challenge against the validity of the PCN  as it does not state mandatory information provided at 4(8 )(v) https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
which in turn refers to 4(8 )(iii). Therefore, the PCN is not valid as it is missing mandatory information.  The PCN incorrectly warns that an increased charge may be payable 28 days from the "date of service" ("If you fail...etc). The governing legislation, (LLATL 2003 4(8)(iii)), stipulates this period runs from the "date of the notice".


b) The PCN is invalid as it fails to comply with the statutory requirement under the LLAT(FL)A 2003 s.4(b), to specify the form in which representations are to be made.The notice contains contradictory and prejudicial instructions, stating first that "one or more" grounds may apply, yet immediately after, directing the recipient to "Please tick one of the set grounds listed below".

And also, drivers must not stop on a box junction. The only exception is if they are intending to make a right hand turn. However, they can only do so if their exit road is clear. I was turning right, but is impossible to determine if our exit is clear, if the one or two cars way ahead suddenly stop dead in front of you. But this may be a weak point.



Given the circumstances, what do you suggest is my next move? I have been given the option of paying the £80 before the end of the period of 14 days from the notice of this below rejection (21/11/2025) or £160 15-28 days from the date of this notice.

I'd be interested to hear what's your next move?

Thanks

LemonTootski

6
Private parking tickets / Re: Reading Moto West - Did Not Receive Notice
« on: August 13, 2025, 05:27:36 pm »
NOD.

7
Private parking tickets / Re: Reading Moto West - Did Not Receive Notice
« on: August 13, 2025, 03:36:54 pm »
Hi @b789, @DWMB2, @HCAndersen

Just out of the blue, today I recieved this email:


Turns out their case probably appeared to have a bit too much holes in it.

Also (as my keen eye recalls you insightfully saying) it appears you were correct; - they will likely not pay the fee and discontinue the case.

Would really like to know the reason though, just for my sanity, and them/DCB chasing me up for hunderds of pounds over two years, pestering my family with numerous threatening 'legal' letters, and most importantly  - all our time and the three pages of storage taken up in this FTLA forum !

I do remember your cheeky advice that I should reply back to them saying: "I am willing to consider a resolution. I would be prepared to settle this matter in full for £0.00...". That was a nice touch :) 

Well thanks for all your help in putting this to bed now.

Much appreciated.

Best regards

Tootski.

8

Thanks all !

I have served this:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally complain about your failure to issue an initial Notice to Keeper (NtK) in relation to the above parking charge notice dated 11/07/2025 for an alleged incident on 06/07/2025 at Wandon Road, London, SW6 2JQ.

Complaint Details:
1.   I have received what appears to be a "Reminder Before Further Action" notice dated 28/07/2025, demanding £100, without having received any initial Notice to Keeper.
2.   As the registered keeper of vehicle registration in question, I am entitled to receive proper notification in accordance with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) and the Private Parking Services Code of Practice (PPSCoP).

Formal Demands:
1.   Strict Proof of Posting: I demand strict proof that you actually sent an initial Notice to Keeper to the registered keeper's address as held by DVLA. This must include:
o   Evidence of when the initial NtK was created
o   Evidence of when it was posted
o   Proof of the address it was sent to
o   Copy of the postal dispatch records

2.   Copy of Original NtK: Provide me with an exact copy of the original Notice to Keeper that you claim to have sent, showing all details as they appeared on the original document.
3.   PPSCoP Compliance: Under Private Parking Services Code of Practice Section 8.1.2(e) Note 2, operators must be able to demonstrate that notices have been properly served. Please provide evidence of your compliance with this requirement.
Legal Position:
•   Without proper service of an initial NtK, any subsequent enforcement action may be invalid
•   The PoFA framework requires specific procedures to be followed for keeper liability to be established
•   Your failure to provide the initial notice at the discounted rate may constitute unfair treatment
I reserve all rights in this matter and expect a full response within 14 days of receipt of this letter. Failure to provide the requested evidence and documentation will be taken as an admission that no valid initial NtK was sent.
I note that I am responding in my capacity as the registered keeper only. The identity of the driver on the date in question is not known to me, and I am under no legal obligation to provide driver details.
I look forward to your prompt response with the requested documentation.

Yours faithfully,


Let's here what  ̶i̶n̶CEL have to say.

I'll keep you posted.

Best

Tootski

9
Hi @b789, it's great to hear form you.

Yes, this How are you getting on with your Group Nexus claim is still pending due for a hearing in November. They  are yet to send me their findings/details. I will update youy later in that old thread in due course.

THe issue is that the warning sign is completly too small and impossible to see as you enter it. Furthermore, it is titled at an angle away from you as you turn into the road from the left side.

It's interesting as you  say the sign [according to GSV] has been there since August 2024, as I remember my mother and I parking there last July to celebate my younger brother's graduation at a Chelsea wine bar - there were no signs there.

John U.K smentions the letter seems scammy... I'm not sure there's anything not scammy about this company :)

But the main concerns are me not having this notice and opportuinity to pay the reduced rate. But @b789, what you say about "unless it did not comply with PoFA paragraph 9(2)(a) as it is likely that they did not include a "period of parking", " is interesting.

How would I determine this, so i can draft it in a representation? Could you shed some light?

Best

10
Hello,
I'm writing to seek your advice regarding a parking charge notice I've received, as I believe there may be grounds to challenge it.
I received a "Reminder Before Further Action" notice dated 28 July 2025 for £100 from Civil Enforcement. According to this notice, the original PCN was supposedly issued on 11 July 2025, but I am certain I never received the initial notice. The first correspondence I received was this reminder on 28 July.

The details are as follows:
• Location: Wandon Road, London, SW6 2JQ
• Date of incident: 6 July 2025

• Alleged breach: "Failed to obtain a permit in accordance with the notified terms"
My concerns are that,  I never received the initial PCN dated 11 July 2025, yet they've proceeded directly to the reminder stage. I realise this may not hold water. But two other issues plaugue me:

1. Lack of evidence provided: The notice contains no photographic evidence, no link to view recorded footage, and no details about the specific parking restrictions or signage in the area.

2. Unclear signage: From my recollection, any parking signs in that location were not clearly visible or adequately informative about permit requirements – and certainly not at tnight when this incident supposedly occurred.

The notice threatens debt recovery action and court proceedings if not paid within 14 days of the reminder date. Given that I believe I have valid grounds to challenge this, I'd appreciate your advice on:

• Whether the non-receipt of the original notice affects their ability to pursue this
• The significance of their failure to provide supporting evidence
• The best approach for challenging this PCN
• Whether I should pay under protest or refuse payment entirely

I have 28 days from the original PCN issue date to appeal (which would be 8 August 2025), so time may be running short if we decide to challenge it.
Would you be able to advise me on the strongest grounds for appeal and the best way forward?
Thank you for your time, and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,


11
Thanks all. Will put in the rep to the LA tomorrow and keep you posted with the outcome ...
(that smiley though - (LLATL 2003 4(8)(iii)))

12
Thanks @Chaseman ... and Hippocrates (apologies for the name typo - i hope you did not catch shingles.)

I get it .. but my head hurts lol! But here goes. Shoot me if i'm wrong:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am making a formal representation to challenge the validity of the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) on the grounds that it is procedurally improper and legally non-compliant. I make this collateral challenge against the validity of the PCN  as it does not state mandatory information provided at 4(8 )(v) https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
which in turn refers to 4(8 )(iii). Therefore, the PCN is not valid as it is missing mandatory information.  The PCN incorrectly warns that an increased charge may be payable 28 days from the "date of service" ("If you fail...etc). The governing legislation, (LLATL 2003 4(8)(iii)), stipulates this period runs from the "date of the notice". This is a failure to include mandatory information and as such, this misstatement of the legal position is prejudicial.

Furthermore, The PCN is invalid as it fails to comply with the statutory requirement under the LLAT(FL)A 2003 s.4(b), to specify the form in which representations are to be made.The notice contains contradictory and prejudicial instructions, stating first that "one or more" grounds may apply, yet immediately after, directing the recipient to "Please tick one of the set grounds listed below". If the legislation does not require choosing only one ground for representations, then artificially limiting this is a procedural defect, as ambiguous instructions prevent proper compliance with statutory rights.

Given the significant procedural improprieties detailed above, These ambiguities are fatal to the validity of the notice; the PCN is therefore unenforceable.

Accordingly, the penalty charge must be cancelled.


-----

Do let me know what you think of my representation and feel free to make any amendments.

Thanks...

13
The Flame Pit / Re: How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?
« on: August 01, 2025, 03:40:22 pm »
En garde, Porthos !

14
Hi @Hippocratews, @b789, @DWMB2, @H C Andersen et all ...

Just wondered what your thoughts were. Do you see any other anomally with this PCN ?

15
good lord, this is the exact same spot, (and almost same time) as a PCN i got:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/3ij-box-jct-new-kings-rd-entering-and-stopping-in-a-box-junction-when-prohibited/

It's a small world.

Except, I didn't do a u-turn!

Perhaps the council's low on its quota this month and needs to dish out more taxes  :)

Anyway, good luck - I'll peruse this thread with great interest ...

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