Author Topic: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E  (Read 445 times)

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disheartened59

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Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« on: October 15, 2024, 08:00:09 pm »
I have received PCN HR75844074dated 02/10/2024, Offence Sunday 29/09/2024 16:31.

I live in Waltham Forest but have had to go to Harrow about 5 times in the last 2 years, the last time I got a pcn at the same place on a sunday and assumed I had missed a bus lane. My son is usually navigating but on this occasion he was not. On the 29/9 he was navigating and we were looking out for the bus lane we were in a stream of traffic at least 2 cars behind and a car in front and a primary school van in front of that. I could not see the sign soon enough to stop safely as did the car in front and also the car behind is shown in the photo to be past the start of the chevrons. And the 2  cars behind that are driing on the left hand side.
There is no other warning signs and  in my opinion I need to be driving down this stretch of road at 20MPH to be able to safely avoid future penalty notices. I could have avoided the bus gate if I am prepared to not watch out for bikers.
My son did not even see the bus gate sign.

I intend to appeal and ask for the cctv, it looks like every car is driving to the left to allow space because there are cars parked on the opposite side of the road.
I am hoping the CCTV will support my case regarding the van, and the parked cars at the time of the incident.


I try to get as much information on the routes where I am travelling before setting off.

Advice needed before making appeal.

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Incandescent

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2024, 10:48:17 pm »
Read this, and update your thread. No meaingful advice can be give unless we can see (1) the PCN, and (2) the video of the alleged contravention : -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

disheartened59

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2024, 11:19:36 am »
Thank you very much for the advices. I was unable to upload the pictures but I intend to upload them today.
I had my Notice of Representations rejected the letter dated 22 October and i have 28 days to appeal.
The pcn has a very short video.
I am inexperienced in the use of forums hence the delays.
I have just worked out how to modify and you are reading the proof!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2024, 11:43:41 am by disheartened59 »

Hippocrates

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2024, 08:57:54 pm »
Please show what you wrote and their NOR. I won a case recently against them for a member.
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

disheartened59

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2024, 09:12:52 pm »
I wrote what is on my original post. I requested the cctv which has been ignored but there is a short video on the PCN. I intended to contact them for the cctv but I cannot find a telephone number, email address, or postal address to do a written request.
I have the photos of the Rejection of Representation on the computer and am going to try and get them loaded on here tonight. [ Guests cannot view attachments ]
Above is the first page of the NOR only two paragraphs on the second page starting you can appeal.
I will try tomorrow to get the photos on properly.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2024, 11:26:51 pm by disheartened59 »

Hippocrates

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2024, 11:44:24 am »
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899
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disheartened59

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2024, 01:58:11 pm »
Many thanks
I have emailed Harrow the first one I did not include the car registration and my name in the subject, on receipt of the automated confirmation email stating these needed to be on the email
, I promptly sent a  :) second email with these included.  I hope to get the photos on properly later tonight. I have found further help.

Please see the images on Imgur https://imgur.com/a/si65sMS

« Last Edit: November 08, 2024, 08:58:02 pm by disheartened59 »

Hippocrates

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2024, 09:19:32 pm »
PCN details
Using A Route Restricted To Certain Vehicles Buses, Cycles And Taxis Only
Date:
29/09/202429 September 2024
Time:
16:31
Location:
CAMROSE AVENUE
Payment due:
£130.00
Payment status:
PCN on hold
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

disheartened59

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2024, 09:52:57 pm »
Please see image link for PCN letter
https://imgur.com/a/dXXqZ2r
Link is for the the letter /email received today deciding not to cancel the PCN. And stating that the choices and timescales in the NOR letter still apply.
I have applied for a copy of the cctv by email tonight.
They have not supplied a copy of my initial representation so I have not been able to check the exact wording and inclusion  of the reduction in the speed limit.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2024, 10:51:09 pm by disheartened59 »

Hippocrates

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2024, 09:25:30 am »
PM sent. Let's get on with this. Sorted.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2024, 10:40:54 am by Hippocrates »
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

disheartened59

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2024, 08:13:13 pm »
Updated link for the PCN letter
https://imgur.com/a/dXXqZ2r

Hippocrates

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2024, 08:33:41 pm »
Updated link for the PCN letter
https://imgur.com/a/dXXqZ2r
There is no need to post anymore as I am taking care of this.  ;D
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Hippocrates

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2024, 09:51:21 am »
 ;D 2240515018
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Peugeot107UGT

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Harrow Camrose Bus Gate 33E - - - Tribunal - - -
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2025, 08:56:49 pm »
4th April 2025

I have a tribunal coming up because of a "contravention" (i think the contravention was building the gate in the first place!) Anyway.... There are two things I am trying to find out before 22nd April 2025 when I am having a video link tribunal regarding the bus gate:.....

One:
What is the bus gate for? Is it a) a traffic calming device? Is it b) a way of letting the bus stop and let all the traffic  pass for a few minutes? Is it c) a way to stop busses colliding with cars at that point ? Does anyone know ? Is it d) And I honestly don't mean to make a joke here) Is it a way for Harrow Council to make plenty of money?

d) I have found out that the bus "gate" attracts so many PCN fines that they council are making 100s of 1000's of pounds each year. The figures are out there so we don't need to discuss that now.....

Two:
How many accidents (even just small dents and scratches etc have there been at this point in the road? The width limit signs are just that.. they don't indicate a bus lane imminent.

Does anyone know of data requests from the Motor Insurers Bureau ( https://www.mib.org.uk/ ) ?

I would like to know if there have been accidents reported at the precise sopt. The bit where you have clocked the "BUS LANE" sign in the road and you have only got time to yank at the steering when while checking the mirror at the same time to avoid going through the bus lane. I personally will be argueing at the tribunal that the whole idea of having to make a last sub-second desicion while navigating the road for the first time is a DANGER to other road users. It requires either the safe option of driving through the gaate or an very counter intuitive sudden swap to the outer lane to the right.

In my case I was clearly at a safe distance from the bus ahead of me but all oncoming traffic was obscured buy the bus. The middle lane which I was supposed to have driven into could have had traffic coming in MY direction for all I could tell.

My level of forward observation is, I think, quite good. But nothing warned me of the impending bus lane only section. And to avoid it is asking the general population of good drivers to make a dangerous decision I think.

So I would like to say now I think we all ought to organise a petition (gather 50,000 signatures) for a legal submission to the house of commons (or where ever they go) to have the Council members who have enjoyed raking it in with traffic fine SACKED ! And the the road device to be removed and all drivers fined from the gate reimbursed.

I know this will not happen and that my tribunal will not succeed because of all the secret hand shakes that the council do with law enforcement. They desperately want the money from us car drivers to put into the Harrow coffers.

All people interested in a petition (there should be a way of finding out who all of the previous PCN victims were and contacting them for signatures) please use the message system to send me your emails. I'll try to organise something.

Kevin Peters.

Incandescent

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2025, 11:24:07 pm »
Well, it's certainly a "nice little earner" for the council !!