Author Topic: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E  (Read 445 times)

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Hippocrates

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2025, 12:40:14 am »
OP: please PM me and I will offer to represent you. And start your own thread.
How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

URGENT!

PLEASE SIGN MY PETITION TO EQUATE MOVING TRAFFIC LAW WITH BUS LANE LAW SO LONDON COUNCILS MUST ATTEND HEARINGS WHEN REQUIRED BY THE APPELLANT. 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/701491

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/petition-to-align-the-llaa-2003-to-the-llaa-1996-(right-to-x-council-witnesses)/msg56899/#msg56899

Bustagate

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2025, 10:14:29 pm »
The chief points to note are:

1. As with all highway authorities, Harrow have a duty under s.122 of Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 to
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secure the expeditious, convenient and safe movement of vehicular and other traffic... on ... the highway
That means that they need to provide signage which does what it says, so ... no surprises when signs are suddenly revealed and you have to decide whether to slam on the brakes and yank the steering wheel or carry on.

2. what Harrow call "directional arrows" and which they claim show which way you're meant to go are actually unlawfully placed on the carriageway. They are known technically as "deflection arrows" (diagram 1014 TSRGD 2016 Schedule 11 Part 4 Item 14). If you trawl through the uses specified, you'll find that (apart from obstructions on the carriageway) they are used as warnings of other road markings and not as road markings in their own right. So they have no right to be there and Harrow's claim that you didn't follow their guidance is poppycock. It's their directional arrows which are poppycock, not your driving.

Sadly, Harrow have been at this for many years. The scheme was created in 1974 (yes, more than 50 years ago) and was designed for rising barriers (think of the red-and-white-striped poles at old-fashioned toll booths or car parks) across what are now referred to as "bus gates". These would have been readily visible and self-policing. The "gates" were never used and the scheme was ineffective for 30 years as a means of stopping large vehicles from using Camrose Avenue.

For some reason I haven't been able to establish, Harrow never did the obvious thing and imposed a lorry restriction (that's what they were in those days) or, later, an HGV restriction on Camrose Avenue. As the restriction is a width restriction, it isn't shown on trucker's atlases (they show height restrictions) and as there isn't an HGV ban, it's not really surprising that HGVs set off down the road and, when they reach the width restriction, go the only way they can.

In 2005 TfL paid Harrow to "upgrade" the restrictions and install CCTV as a means of making the scheme more effective "in preventing large vehicles abusing the bus gates". At least they put in advance notices of the width restrictions, so fewer HGVs reached the restrictions. There had never any problem associated with cars: the whole scheme was about stopping large vehicles. But once it had started spinning money, predominantly of course from car drivers, Harrow has never looked back. It's their highest-yielding site.

Unfortunately, this is all rather complicated and way beyond the effort most people are prepared to put into fending off Harrow's claims. It's so much easier to pay the £65 and move on. Anyway, I've got a hearing on Thursday and will post again then.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2025, 10:17:13 pm by Bustagate »

Bustagate

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2025, 12:52:26 pm »
Regulation 18 of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 (LATOR) places a duty on local authorities when they make a Traffic Order to place
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such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road

Harrow have made separate orders on Camrose Avenue applying bus restrictions and width restrictions. The combined effect of those restrictions is that the following vehicles can pass through the restrictions:

  • on the right: those less than 2.0m wide
  • on the left: buses, pedal cycles and taxis
The advance notice signs which Harrow have placed only indicate the presence of the width restrictions. They do not indicate that the width restrictions can be bypassed by buses (and also taxis and cycles, but they can pass through the width restriction). The definition of buses is
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a motor vehicle constructed or adapted to carry more than 8 passengers (exclusive of the driver); or a local bus
Buses therefore include minibuses, such as those used by voluntary groups, many of which are more than 2m wide and can be driven on an ordinary driver's licence.

Harrow's advance notice signs fail to convey the restrictions at Camrose Avenue, which Regulation 18 of LATOR requires. They therefore misdirect drivers of minibuses as to what the restrictions are. Advance notice of the bus restrictions as well as the width restrictions would also prepare other drivers for what they are about to encounter.

The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD 2016) offer greater flexibility than previous versions in providing advance notice of restrictions. In particular, they allow advance notice signs which show two restrictions side-by-side, such as on the left in the attached image. This sign is based on one which was used at the northern end of Hammersmith Bridge Road, where there is an almost identical configuration of a bus lane on the left of a traffic island and a width restriction to its right.

Although this advance notice sign is unusual (but so is the configuration of lanes on Camrose Avenue) and so may not be understood, it puts motorists on their guard. It prepares them for the next sign, shown on the right in the attached image. This sign is a "lane gain" sign which shows that a lane is being added on the right and that, after a junction on the left (Dale Avenue), the left-hand lane is restricted to buses, cycles and taxis. It is the sign which you didn't see when following the bus and which would have indicated to you that you should move out.

Instead, Harrow will say that
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There is signage at the location, situated on both sides of the road, and in accordance with The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD) 2016.

The signs clearly advise motorists of the approaching width restrictions in advance... There is no legislation for there to be advanced warning signs for the buses, taxis and cycles only lane. In addition there are directional white arrows on the road to give motorists guidance as to the lane they should be travelling in
The "directional white arrows" are technically known as deflection arrows and are specified as Item 14 in TSRGD 2016 Schedule 11 Part 4. Harrow's use of them is not as prescribed in TSRGD 2016 (see the attachment AnnexD.pdf and note the quote at the end).

The width-restriction signs are 450mm in diameter. Those signs are Item 26 in TSRGD 2016 Schedule 3 Part 2. The possible sizes (see column 4) are 750, 900 and 1200mm diameters. It follows that the width-restriction signs are not as prescribed in TSRGD 2016.

The placing of the "BUS GATE" road marking (Item 15 of TSRGD 2016 Schedule 9 Part 6) is also not in accordance with TSRGD 2016. This is more subtle: the marking is regulatory and is required to be placed inside the section of road to which the Traffic Order applies. It has been placed in advance of it.

Harrow's assertion that "the signage is in accordance with TSRGD 2016" is triply false. By acting outside TSRGD 2016, Harrow have acted ultra vires and cannot derive benefit from their unlawful actions. The adjudicator should not draw any inferences against you from any failure on your part to respond to those three elements of the signage.

Another thing Harrow will say in their evidence is
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Additionally, restricted routes are identified by thick white demarcation line, the words "BUS GATE" are painted on the carriageway itself and - although not necessary to meet the regulations - the roadway is paved with red asphalt
The "thick white demarcation line" (which did not comply with TSRGD) disappeared when the road was resurfaced in 2021/22, as did the red surface-dressing. As already noted, the words "BUS GATE" should have been painted within the bus restriction, not in advance of it.

What Harrow have done on Camrose Avenue has been in effect to create a very short nearside with-flow bus lane. They couldn't create this as a proper bus lane because those require what is known as a "lead-in taper". This is a dashed thick white line on a 1:10 diagonal leading up to the start of the lane. This really does guide motorists away from the bus lane as it starts. There are rules about such tapers, one of which is that you can't have a junction within it. Another concerns visibility and the placing of advance signage. When the scheme was created, highway authorities needed permission from the Department to create bus lanes. Harrow knew that they couldn't meet the requirements, so they went ahead and did what they wanted, creating something which acted like a short bus lane but wasn't. The scheme was created without adequate signage and has never had proper signage.

Harrow are correct when they say that the blue roundels are where they are required to be. But that doesn't mean that those blue roundels on their own provide sufficient notice. For a normal bus lane you have all that other signage, including the lead-in taper, which means that by the time you reach the start of the bus lane you don't actually notice the equivalent of the blue roundel which marks the start of the bus lane.

Section 122 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 imposes the duty on all highway authorities to
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secure the expeditious, convenient and safe movement of vehicular and other traffic (including pedestrians) ... on ... the highway
By not providing the signage to indicate to motorists who may be following a bus that they need to move out, Harrow is failing to meet its statutory obligations. It is those statutory obligations which make irrelevant Harrow's assertion that there is no legislation requiring advance notice of bus restrictions. It is the combination of signage which must be adequate to enable motorists expeditiously, conveniently and safely to use Harrow's roads. Suitable signs exist. Harrow does not use them.


P.S. For those wishing to deploy this argument eastbound on Camrose Avenue, I have uploaded BusSign6.png, which gives the signs which I consider appropriate eastbound (the service road is less significant than Dale Avenue, so I haven't shown it).
« Last Edit: April 08, 2025, 04:02:33 pm by Bustagate »

Bustagate

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2025, 09:30:00 am »
I said that I would report what happened at the hearing on Thursday in which I was involved.

The Adjudicator appeared to be surprised by the challenges being made. When I said that the road markings were unlawful, he asked whether I meant that they were not as set out in the Traffic Signs Manual. I said no, they were not in accordance with TSRGD 2016. It was unlawful to place those road markings where Harrow had placed them. The time ran out and the hearing was adjourned to 29 April. The reason was:

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The Adjudicator directs the Enforcement Authority to respond in detail the written submissions made by the Appellant and also address the particular point raised by the Appellant that the location images produced are incorrect in that they do not show the current position

As the road markings westbound are very similar to those eastbound, you may wish to ask for a postponement of your hearing until Harrow have responded in detail to the written submissions in Appeal 2250053451 and the Adjudicator has delivered his Adjudication.

Bustagate

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Re: Harrow Camrose Avenue Bus Gate 33E
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2025, 09:53:53 pm »
Harrow have now submitted their response to the Adjudicator. Among much boilerplate which they have scraped from the bottom of the barrel (some of which relates to road markings which they removed in 2008) there is a notable absence: they are silent on whether the curved arrows have been placed in accordance with TSRGD 2016. As these arrows form a substantial plank in their argument that they have provided adequate advance signage of the bus restriction and guidance to motorists where to go, the removal of this plank severely weakens their argument.

They have also not addressed my argument that the BUS GATE road markings have also not been placed in accordance with TSRGD 2016. That road marking is required to be placed within the restriction, not in advance of it.

As the "thick white demarcation line" and the "red asphalt paving" do not exist, they are left with no advance signage of the bus restriction and only the diagram 953's at the restriction itself. That compares with the advance signage for a nearside with-flow bus lane of the lead-in taper and the diagram 958 30m in advance of the start of the taper.

If Harrow have not withdrawn their argument about the "BUS GATE" road marking and the "white directional arrows" in your case, I suggest challenging them about false witness. Their failure to respond to these points when directed to by the Adjudicator in my case provides a strong indication that they are unable to sustain that argument and should not be deploying it in other cases.