Author Topic: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone  (Read 871 times)

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Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2024, 07:49:05 pm »
@cp8759
Details attached in link with further photos of signage.

Is anyone able to clarify whether I can appeal as I'm now confused about the info and will have to pay the PCN tomorrow.
I've never in my life had a PCN so I'm struggling with the terminology.

Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2024, 09:55:29 pm »
Could I have clarification if I'm likely to be able to appeal? Getting lost on the jargon unfortunately and will need to pay the PCN tomorrow.
Have uploaded a short video with signage photos

cp8759

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2024, 10:03:35 pm »
@Haveringresident forget about paying the PCN tomorrow, the website ground along gives you an almost certain win as the grounds listed on the council website are all wrong: ground F, G and H on the council website are all inapplicable. Add this with the council's likely inability to supply a copy of your video to the tribunal, and you've got them on two grounds (if they can't supply a copy of the video you send with the representations, then that's a failure to supply a true copy of the representations and that alone will win the day).

Would you be able to put the video you've filmed onto a CD and post it to the council? Please confirm before doing anything, as I'll have to draft some wording for you.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2024, 10:19:57 pm »
EDIT

Found CD-R / CD-RW and DVD -RW.
OPTIONS - use like USB flash drive or with a CD/DVD player?

Could it not be emailed rather than on CD?. Do you mean the latest video clip from today?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2024, 10:52:31 pm by Haveringresident »

cp8759

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2024, 12:21:36 am »
Could it not be emailed rather than on CD?. Do you mean the latest video clip from today?
Does the PCN provide an email address where representations can be sent? As the resolution of your photos is so low I can't actually read the representations page. Obviously email would be better but it might not be an option if no email address is given.

I was referring to the dashcam video you posted showing the signage.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2024, 08:44:28 am »
Unfortunately only an email address for viewing the footage. What would be the best postage option use - tracked or 1st class signed for?  Just getting myself prepared.

I managed to copy onto CD-R which I found. I have other options if better - CD-RW or DVD-RW. I also did both options on separate CDs - 1 for to 'use like a USB flash drive and the other to use with a CD/DVD player' as I didn't know which was the best option. The one to use with CD does not open automatically so if the other is suitable for USB then I'd prefer to use that one.
I copied the video I took on dash cam yesterday - called 'short clip with signage'.

cp8759

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2024, 12:10:43 am »
I'd just send both CDs (there's no point in sending a rewritable disc) by special delivery (a bit expensive but worth it in this instance), here's the text of the representation:

Dear London Borough of Havering,

I challenge liability on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur, owing to the inadequacy of the signage. I refer you to the video on the attached CDs.

Yours faithfully,

Obviously make sure to keep the tracking number and check when it's been delivered.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2024, 09:57:00 am »
Can I ask what is considered to be inadequate about the signage as I am sure they will disallow this?  I have the address for Havering Council - should I just mark this for the Parking Appeals or Contravention Appeals Officer ? Thanks
« Last Edit: July 03, 2024, 09:59:01 am by Haveringresident »

John U.K.

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2024, 10:18:40 am »
Quote
I have the address for Havering Council - should I just mark this for the Parking Appeals or Contravention Appeals Officer ?

The address is on the PCN, under 'How to make represenatation'.


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Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2024, 03:02:06 pm »
Sent 24hr track & sign
Havering are well known for refusing appeals so fingers crossed.

cp8759

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2024, 10:22:43 pm »
It's not an appeal, it's a representation. I also think the council will refuse it, but you then have strong grounds to appeal to the tribunal where I think you have very good odds of winning.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2024, 10:25:59 pm »
Thanks👍

Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2024, 06:20:16 pm »
Although this representation was sent on 3 July 24hr track & sign it hasn't arrived and no sign of it having left the depot since arriving in Romford on 00:56 yesterday (4th). No further luck on phoning - just told it was an 'aim' to deliver in that timescale!

The date of the notice was 19 June - how long should I wait without confirmation of delivery before taking the next step which will probably have to be hand delivered?

cp8759

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2024, 06:10:24 pm »
The deadline for representations to be made is 18 July.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Haveringresident

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Re: Contravention code 53J – Havering – entering school zone
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2024, 07:32:02 pm »
In the end I had to delivery the CDs and letter by hand on 10 July (I videod my entry and handover of the pack) to the council offices as the 24hr track is still sitting at the Distribution centre since the 4 July.

Havering Council have updated their PCN details and after 22 July there is no 50% discount if appeal fails.Doesn't affect me as my appeal was prior to 22 July (today)but have added the document on my One Drive:
https://1drv.ms/w/s!Ap8lM3AI_i7_hJJlUUvizM-ZYqF50w?e=r5jfCa

What I am concerned about is that they have 56 days to reply which is fine but a neighbour received a PCN and didn't receive the rejection letter. 
Havering Council said that she must have as it would have been returned to them if not. 
She ended up paying as the fine which was incorrect was running into a couple of hundred pounds.

Having experienced poor service with Royal Mail and the 24hr track and sign should I chase up prior to that time? If of course I could contact them!