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Any points would be applied to your UK driver record, so you would still be liable for a ban on reaching 12 points.
How was your UK licence stolen and at the same time handed to the Greek authorities? -
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Thank you for your response! Let me clarify a couple of points:
1. Handing Over My UK Licence in Greece
The Greek authorities required me to hand over a valid driving licence in order to reissue my Greek (EU) licence. Simply requesting a reissue of my original Greek licence wasn’t an option. Since I needed to provide my UK licence to meet their requirements, I reported it as lost in the UK to ensure I could still obtain a replacement here while complying with the Greek process. This was the only way to satisfy their rules. Importantly, no law is being broken here because the EU rule allowing only one driving licence across member states no longer applies in this situation, as the UK is no longer part of the EU.
2. Accumulating Points on the UK Licence
When you receive a fine, you are required to provide a driving licence number. If I were to use my Greek (EU) driving licence number, I don’t see how the points could be applied to my UK driving licence. Theoretically, the authorities could check databases for individuals with the same name and date of birth. However, I would assume the primary method of assigning points is by using the driving licence number itself, which is unique to each licence. This means that, practically speaking, the system would treat me as a completely separate person when using my Greek licence. -
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Thank you for your response! Let me clarify a couple of points:
That is true, but as part of the final (oven-ready?) Brexit deal the existing driving licence arrangements remained unchanged.
1. Handing Over My UK Licence in Greece
The Greek authorities required me to hand over a valid driving licence in order to reissue my Greek (EU) licence. Simply requesting a reissue of my original Greek licence wasn’t an option. Since I needed to provide my UK licence to meet their requirements, I reported it as lost in the UK to ensure I could still obtain a replacement here while complying with the Greek process. This was the only way to satisfy their rules. Importantly, no law is being broken here because the EU rule allowing only one driving licence across member states no longer applies in this situation, as the UK is no longer part of the EU.
That means (AIUI) you had to surrender your UK licence to the Greeks, and you have broken at least one law by falsely reporting it stolen. -
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I don’t see how the points could be applied to my UK driving licence.
You still haven't grasped this.
As southpaw said, penalty points are not applied to your licence. They are applied to your driving record. You can accrue UK points no matter what licence you hold or even if you hold no licence at all.QuoteImportantly, no law is being broken here....
I think the DVLA might see it differently. You declared to them that your GB licence was lost or stolen. That was a false declaration because it wasn't lost. You know exactly where it is (or at least where it was when you handed it over to the Greek authorities).
The reason you could not obtain a new Greek licence unless you handed over your GB one is that, for driving licence purposes, nothing has changed since Brexit. You can only hold one licence if it is issued by any of the 28 nations (27 EU plus GB). For the same reason you would no have been granted a GB licence if you said you held a Greek one.QuoteIf I were to use my Greek (EU) driving licence number, I don’t see how the points could be applied to my UK driving licence.
You might get away with that, however, you might not. Since you made a false declaration to the DVLA you need to tread very carefully. -
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The reason you could not obtain a new Greek licence unless you handed over your GB one is that, for driving licence purposes, nothing has changed since Brexit. You can only hold one licence if it is issued by any of the 28 nations (27 EU plus GB). For the same reason you would no have been granted a GB licence if you said you held a Greek one.
It's got nothing to do with the OP but in fact for driving licence purposes everything has changed since Brexit.
There never was any necessity to exchange a UK licence for an EU licence as a UK licence was of course a perfectly valid EU driving licence. Neither the Withdrawal Agreement nor the Trade and Cooperation Agreement make any mention of driving licences. The previous automatic exchange of a UK licence for an EU licence or vice versa is now no longer possible.
I personally know the situation in France where if a Brit now takes up residence then provided their UK driving licence was issued before 31st January 2020 they do not need to exchange it for a French licence until it expires. However if they passed their test after 31st January 2020 then you only have 12 months after they become resident to exchange their UK licence for a French licence. If they miss that window then they cannot exchange & must pass a French driving test to legally drive in which case they will quite legally hold both a valid UK & a French driving licence.
Every EU state now has different rules for licence exchange as all post-Brexit arrangements for driving licences have had to be agreed on a bilateral basis.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driving-in-the-eu-uk-licence-holders-living-in-the-eu -
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Thank you all for your responses. Let me address this in two parts:
1.How I Ended Up with Two Licences
I understand that I’ve technically broken the law by falsely reporting my UK licence as lost, but this was done purely for technical reasons so I could hand it over to the Greek authorities. They informed me that they require the original licence to issue a Greek (EU) licence, regardless of whether the licence is from the UK, the U.S., China, or any other non-EU country. This is just the standard process in Greece for converting third-country licences to EU licences. Importantly, they explicitly stated that they do not send the handed-over licence back to the country of origin. For example, if someone hands over a U.S. licence to get a Greek licence, the U.S. authorities would never be informed, and the same applies to the UK. As the UK is no longer part of the EU, the old rule requiring only one EU licence per person doesn’t apply in this case. Therefore, no notification of invalidation or revocation would be sent from Greece to the UK.
2.Assigning Points to the Licence
Setting aside how I ended up with two perfectly valid licenses, when someone receives a fine, they’re required to provide their name and their driving licence number. While names like Jonh Stewart or John Smith might be common and appear thousands of times, driving licence numbers are unique and serve as the primary identifier. If I provide my Greek driving licence number when fined, I would assume that the penalty points would be loaded onto my Greek licence. For all practical purposes, the system would treat me as a completely separate individual holding an EU licence. I could very well be a tourist with the same name driving in the UK. The EU driving licence has no connection with any NIN or UK passport! And from their end how confident would they be to just arbritrarily charge a UK driving licence with points only from a name match? So in practice I am very confident that they will never be any link between these 2 driving licences. (For the purpose of this conversation we can set aside the ethical side of things
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In the unfortunate scenario that I do something stupid again and end up with a fine I will definitely update you all with the results of my attempt
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Thank you all for your responses. Let me address this in two parts:
If you are tried for a criminal offence in England or Wales, there are two possible outcomes - guilty or not guilty. "Technically" guilty is not an option.
1.How I Ended Up with Two Licences
I understand that I’ve technically broken the law by falsely reporting my UK licence as lost, but this was done purely for technical reasons so I could hand it over to the Greek authorities.
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I understand that I’ve technically broken the law by falsely reporting my UK licence as lost, but this was done purely for technical reasons
Oh, well, that’s ok then.Quote2.Assigning Points to the Licence
Setting aside how I ended up with two perfectly valid licenses, when someone receives a fine, they’re required to provide their name and their driving licence number. While names like Jonh Stewart or John Smith might be common and appear thousands of times, driving licence numbers are unique and serve as the primary identifier. If I provide my Greek driving licence number when fined, I would assume that the penalty points would be loaded onto my Greek licence. For all practical purposes, the system would treat me as a completely separate individual holding an EU licence. I could very well be a tourist with the same name driving in the UK. The EU driving licence has no connection with any NIN or UK passport! And from their end how confident would they be to just arbritrarily charge a UK driving licence with points only from a name match? So in practice I am very confident that they will never be any link between these 2 driving licences. (For the purpose of this conversation we can set aside the ethical side of things )
In the unfortunate scenario that I do something stupid again and end up with a fine I will definitely update you all with the results of my attempt
Clearly you know better than us. You certainly think you do. -
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Clearly you know better than us. You certainly think you do.
Thanks for your response, but how about a reasoned counterargument over a snarky remark? All I’m saying is that, given the volume of fines police handle, it’s reasonable to assume they rely primarily on the driver’s name and licence number, rather than launching a comprehensive detective search for every matching first and last name. If you believe otherwise, I’d be interested to know exactly where you think my reasoning falls short. -
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Your assumptions are wrong. This can be surmised by the responses received so far, but that is apparently unsatisfactory.
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I would assume that the penalty points would be loaded onto my Greek licence. For all practical purposes, the system would treat me as a completely separate individual holding an EU licence.
Why do you make those assumptions?
Penalty points are not loaded on to any licence. They are attributed to a driver's driving record.
And so to this:Quote....but if I do get caught, I plan to use my Greek licence so those points go there, leaving the UK licence at 9 points.
Let's try and make it a little easier to understand. Imagine that you hold your two licences and commit an offence for which you are disqualified from driving. You provide the court with (say) your Greek licence details. Do you think you can continue driving in the UK, despite a UK court having disqualified you from doing so, because you hold a GB licence which is "clean"?
You seem to be confusing what you are obliged or allowed to do with what you think you might get away with. -
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I wonder what the response of the Greek authorities if the situation were reversed & the OP tried to pull the same stunt in Greece.
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given the OP was clearly trying to educate everyone as opposed to getting advice. I suggest waiting to see hiw he gets on with his plan and see if he returns to tell us, truthfully (as, by his own admission he tells lies)
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Let's try and make it a little easier to understand. Imagine that you hold your two licences and commit an offence for which you are disqualified from driving. You provide the court with (say) your Greek licence details. Do you think you can continue driving in the UK, despite a UK court having disqualified you from doing so, because you hold a GB licence which is "clean"?
You seem to be confusing what you are obliged or allowed to do with what you think you might get away with.
I completely agree that if a UK court disqualifies me, I must not drive—no question there. I certainly won't. However, that scenario isn’t what I’m discussing. My hypothetical is just different: Let’s assume a UK driving licence already has 3 penalty points, and then I receive a typical speeding ticket (for instance, another 3 points). Would those points automatically be applied to my UK licence if I provide details from my EU licence instead?
Of course, in theory, the authorities could cross-reference everything and link the two licences. But in practical reality, given the high volume of daily fines, is it really so unreasonable to assume they’d rely solely on the unique licence number and not perform an exhaustive first-name–last-name–date-of-birth check? That’s the core of my question here—not whether I could ignore a disqualification issued by a court.given the OP was clearly trying to educate everyone as opposed to getting advice. I suggest waiting to see hiw he gets on with his plan and see if he returns to tell us, truthfully (as, by his own admission he tells lies)
I wasn’t trying to “educate” anyone; I was simply making a reasonable assumption about how the police handle fines when provided with a licence number. If you view my reporting the licence as lost—purely so I could hand it over to the Greek authorities and reclaim my rightful EU driving licence—as a grave wrongdoing, then I’ll deal with that consequence if it ever arises.
Either way, I would like to thank everyone for your answers. I appreciate the time you've taken to share your thoughts.
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Fraud, an offence of dishonesty, is usually treated pretty seriously, yes. Bye.
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