Author Topic: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?  (Read 459 times)

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estevenin

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Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« on: May 16, 2024, 01:05:52 am »
Hi all,

I have a question that goes through my mind. It's related to speeding offences, but not a specific one so posting here.

Let's assume a British resident (foreigner or national), legally owns 2 driving licence. One from UK, one from EU.

He drives a car in the UK, and when having an insurance quote, he has to provide his UK driving licence informations.

Question : When receiving a motorist offence notice, can the driver choose to declare his foreign (EU) licence instead of the British one ?

The obvious reason is to avoid the points on the British one, and the premium on insurance renewal, and there would be no offence attached to it.

I'v looked it up and it's quite blurred. First of all, it is allowed to hold those two licences. Then, the insurance, even if the quote requires your driving licence, is issued at your name and your name only.

So I can't find a reason why the police would refuse a submission, if you choose to mention and send a valid EU licence, instead of your UK one.

Any thoughts anyone ? Or return of experience ?

Thank you.

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slapdash

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Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2024, 02:58:46 am »
I imagine the insurer would ask about offences by the person. If it bypasses the question by optionally accepting a UK license doing so would seem to be a fraudulent act to gain a lower premium.

The foreign or EU license would typically be valid for a defined period after becoming resident. If you didn't cease to be resident it's hard to see how it would be valid.


Southpaw82

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Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2024, 07:27:42 am »
Offences are recorded against a driver record, not a licence. See s 44A of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.

The Rookie

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Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2024, 08:11:20 am »
Offences are recorded against a driver record, not a licence. See s 44A of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.
Even if DVLA failed to add it to your driver record, you would know you had been punished for the offence so not declaring it would be fraudulent.
There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!

666

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Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2024, 10:50:24 am »
Points can't be added to a foreign licence, so the DVLA set up a "ghost" licence record. Doing so would presumably flag up the existence of a UK licence holder with the same name and DOB (and possibly address). If so, the OP's cunning plan would fail.

nigelbb

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Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2024, 10:51:38 am »
You would need to pass your driving test in both the UK & EU state to have two driving licences. Do you actually have two driving licences or is this just a hypothetical question?

estevenin

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Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2024, 12:26:53 pm »
Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback, those are all interesting talks. If I was asked the question, I would declare it. However the insurance that I use usually does not ask for convictions during quote renewals every year (Only for new quotes), and you are not required to disclose it either. So I suppose they would run some sort of a test on your DVLA records to generate that new quote, even though I'm just assuming, hence my question.

However, if it's attached to the driver and they only use the name and DOB, then yes, I assume that would probably get attached to that UK licence.

You would need to pass your driving test in both the UK & EU state to have two driving licences. Do you actually have two driving licences or is this just a hypothetical question?

Yes correct. So I passed my driving test in France many years ago, and exchanged that licence again many years ago, for a full UK on, when I became resident.

I recently passed my bike licence in France, so they issued me a new driving licence over there. It also contained the car licence, as I had it on their records. So I have a UK (car) driving licence, and now a FR (car / bike) driving licence.

I strached my head for a while with that but it seems to be perfectly legal and acceptable, despite consultations a while back before Brexit, it obviously didn't go through now thay Brexit went ahead.

I'v also read that you are required to exchange your foreign licence if you are à resident (which I did), but nothing forces you to use that licence, over a foreign one.

Even in the hypothetical case I am stopped by the police, if I decide to show the FR licence instead of the UK, they will end up saying that it should be exchanged, which I did.

At the end, I understand that the law does not plan for a country to issue à driving licence twice, after the first beeing exchanged already...

So I understand that records are attached to the driver. Also that you need to disclose offences, applied to you. And also, that you need to have a UK licence beeing a UK resident...

With all that beeing said, is choosing to disclose your foreign licence instead of a UK one, when receiving a speed ticket (without thinking of the reasons why that I mentionned on the first post), an offence, or is that then a grey area ?





666

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Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2024, 12:36:37 pm »
Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback, those are all interesting talks. If I was asked the question, I would declare it. However the insurance that I use usually does not ask for convictions during quote renewals every year (Only for new quotes), and you are not required to disclose it either. So I suppose they would run some sort of a test on your DVLA records to generate that new quote, even though I'm just assuming, hence my question.


That sounds unlikely.

A renewal notice normally asks you whether anything has changed, e.g. my latest one said "It is important that you review your ‘Schedule and Information provided by you’ document to ensure that the data we hold is current and that you inform us of any changes."

estevenin

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Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2024, 04:00:27 pm »
I found this in the city of London police website :

"If you're a foreign national and have been issued with a licence by the DVLA then you should provide the details of the licence issued by the DVLA. If you don't hold a UK licence then you must send us the licence number and country of issue of your non-UK licence."

I note that they use the word "should" but not "must"

estevenin

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Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2024, 03:04:59 pm »
Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback, those are all interesting talks. If I was asked the question, I would declare it. However the insurance that I use usually does not ask for convictions during quote renewals every year (Only for new quotes), and you are not required to disclose it either. So I suppose they would run some sort of a test on your DVLA records to generate that new quote, even though I'm just assuming, hence my question.


That sounds unlikely.

A renewal notice normally asks you whether anything has changed, e.g. my latest one said "It is important that you review your ‘Schedule and Information provided by you’ document to ensure that the data we hold is current and that you inform us of any changes."

I specifically asked them, their email reply was "There is no need to inform us of any conviction as we are able to pull that data automatically from DVLA"

If I ever get a speeding fine in the future, I will try, to get a definitive answer to that question, and update that post accordingly. I will update the insurance by email and that way if they already had the data or not and I'll know if the data is joint to my UK profile or sent to a seperate account. Given that there is no law instructing that it is mandatory to send your UK licence, instead or a foreign one.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2024, 03:07:15 pm by estevenin »

roythebus

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Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2024, 10:46:59 am »
The City of London police would only be guidelines, not what the law actually says. Much like the Highway Code and advice given by the DVLA in a lot of their guidelines, it's what the law actually says that matters.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

estevenin

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Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2024, 12:51:59 am »
The City of London police would only be guidelines, not what the law actually says. Much like the Highway Code and advice given by the DVLA in a lot of their guidelines, it's what the law actually says that matters.

Indeed. Just haven't found the law on that topic. They had a law on double EU/EEA Licence prior to Brexit, but now I think it is simply a grey area at the moment.

roythebus

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Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2024, 06:57:36 pm »
As may have already been state, the DVLA make a ghost licence and any points or fines will be put on that ghost licence. UK law can ban holders of foreign licences from driving in the UK. That won't affect their ability to drive in their home country or any other country outside the UK.
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

Southpaw82

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Re: Speeding Offence : Send a foreign driving licence ?
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2024, 07:33:01 pm »
As may have already been state, the DVLA make a ghost licence and any points or fines will be put on that ghost licence. UK law can ban holders of foreign licences from driving in the UK. That won't affect their ability to drive in their home country or any other country outside the UK.

Unless there’s a reciprocal agreement.