3. London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
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London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
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:(  :'(

As I joked with Mr Chan and mrmustard the other day, will I need make up?  If so, I hope this will be less expensive than my train fares.

This is quite sad, actually, as I like the journey and it gets me out of the house. Last but not least, the personal interactions will be sorely missed.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2025, 12:43:52 pm by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

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Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #1 on: »
*train fairs reclaimable as expenses anyway.
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A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!
Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #2 on: »
Hippocrates while video hearings will be the default, you'll still be able to ask for a face to face hearing.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: LemonTootski on January 17, 2025, 01:15:48 pm
*train fairs reclaimable as expenses anyway.
No they're not, costs awards are exceptionally rare.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #4 on: »
I very much appreciate the personal hearing. I've been to a few and have won every case so far. the last one I had was on the phone and was very helpful, again I won. (Station Road Barking). I don't like video meetings.
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Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #5 on: »
Admission to a hearing

8.—(1) Subject to the provisions of this paragraph, a hearing shall be held in public.

(2) The adjudicator may direct that the whole or any part of a hearing be held in private if he is satisfied that it is just and reasonable for him so to do by reason of —

(a)the likelihood of disclosure of intimate personal or financial circumstances;

(b)the likelihood of disclosure of commercially sensitive information or information obtained in confidence; or

(c)exceptional circumstances not falling within paragraph (a) or (b).

(3) The following persons shall be entitled to attend the hearing of an appeal which is held in private—

(a)any other adjudicator; and

(b)(for the purpose of discharging his functions as a member of that Council) a member of the Council on Tribunals.

(4) The adjudicator, with the consent of the parties, may permit any other person to attend the hearing of an appeal which is held in private or, where part of it is so held, that part.

(5) Without prejudice to any other powers he may have, an adjudicator may exclude from the hearing of an appeal, or part of it, any person whose conduct has disrupted or is likely, in the opinion of the adjudicator, to disrupt the hearing.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on January 18, 2025, 03:52:08 pm
Hippocrates while video hearings will be the default, you'll still be able to ask for a face to face hearing.
@cp8759 @mrmustard The other Musketeer may wish to give his views here as I am not at all clear that he and I are given or interpreting the information the same way.  Also, does the TPT allow face to face hearings?

In any event, where is this published?  I also gather that February 2nd is the deadline and then any rescheduled hearing after that date will be via video?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2025, 11:25:38 am by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #7 on: »
Presumably the video hearings offer protection for the Adjudicators from irate appellants after losing their cases.

I was at a hearing in Ashford many years ago and the case before mine went in; there was a lot of shouting during the case which suddenly ended with a very very irate appellant leaving the room having lost his case. the Adjudicator looked rather shaken when I went in.
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Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #8 on: »
I also like visiting tribunal but it does take a fair chunk out of my day.

I'm planning to spend more time abroad, probably all of April, and I could still do video meetings from abroad so they are useful.

I'm waiting to see how this pans out as I am currently scheduled in person and on video at the same time on 26 February.

Partly my future hearings will be dictated by which adjudicators are still going to sit in person at a hearing centre (think the new one is at Cannon St which is still easy for me on the Northern Line) as if they aren't on my preferred list I will want to try and avoid them anyway.

For me, the jury is out.

I think the one thing that all experts agree on is don't do postal hearings as they can go wrong.
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I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.
Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #9 on: »
I will try and find out more tomorrow.
Logged
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on January 20, 2025, 11:23:27 am
Also, does the TPT allow face to face hearings?
No, they would only arrange this by exception if for some good reason a video hearing couldn't take place. An elderly granny who only has a landline and wants to explain that her disabled badge was displayed and the CEO took the pictures at a convenient angle would certainly get one, I don't think any professional rep would.

I know that in-person hearings will carry on but will be on request only as the new hearing centre will be much smaller and only have a fraction of the space. Remote hearings are very convenient, I did some from France over the Christmas break.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: mrmustard on January 20, 2025, 11:59:00 am
I also like visiting tribunal but it does take a fair chunk out of my day.

I'm planning to spend more time abroad, probably all of April, and I could still do video meetings from abroad so they are useful.


Is that legal? I was told that I couldn't give evidence to an inquest via video link from abroad as I would have to be physically in the UK.
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Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: nigelbb on January 21, 2025, 11:37:19 am
Is that legal? I was told that I couldn't give evidence to an inquest via video link from abroad as I would have to be physically in the UK.
What law says you can't? It's quite common for witnesses and advocates to address UK courts from abroad, it happens literally all the time.

It would be illegal for a judge or adjudicator to conduct the hearing abroad as that would be an infringement of the foreign country's sovereignty, as a judicial office holder is exercising the sovereign power of the state, but an advocate is just a private citizen.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #13 on: »
I did two hearings by phone in Bordeaux in early January. The adjudicator and I had a quick chat about wine so he definitely knew where I was.
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I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.
Re: London Tribunal personal hearings morphing into hearings by video
« Reply #14 on: »
As far as witnesses are concerned, they should not give evidence from abroad unless Practice Direction 32 has been complied with. The relevant part of that reads:

Quote
It should not be presumed that all foreign governments are willing to allow their nationals or others within their jurisdiction to be examined before a court in England or Wales by means of VCF. If there is any doubt about this, enquiries should be directed to the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Public Facing Services, Taking of Evidence Team) TOE.Enquiries@fcdo.gov.uk with a view to ensuring that the country from which the evidence is to be taken raises no objection to it at diplomatic level. The party who is directed to be responsible for arranging the VCF (see paragraph 8 below) will be required to make all necessary inquiries about this well in advance of the VCF and must be able to inform the court what those inquiries were and of their outcome.

As will be obvious from the above, there may be legal implications for the witness (I understand that in some countries it is an offence to give evidence to a foreign court from that country) and diplomatic implications for the UK (for offending the sovereignty of that other nation).

I appreciate that PD32 doesn’t apply in the tribunal but the underlying issues are the same.

The same doesn’t seem to hold true for representatives, as long as they’re not giving evidence.
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I am not qualified to give legal advice in the UK. While I will do my best to help you, you should not rely on my advice as if it was given by a lawyer qualified in the UK.
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