3. Gallows Corner roundabout RM3 8AA Harold hill - PCN query
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Re: Are these TFL road signs legal? re Gallows Corner roundabout closure
« Reply #15 on: »
As above. Also

1. Why have you started a second thread on this?

2. What exactly is a "major" (sorry, MAJOR) roundabout?
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Re: Gallows Corner roundabout RM3 8AA Harold hill - PCN query
« Reply #16 on: »
1. I only want to know legality please... Signs can be illegal or positioned illegally and therefore null and void.

2.'MAJOR' means big/massive/important/ e.g. bigger than a spot on the road roundabout... used by over 1,000s vehicles daily.. Gallows corner is one of the only roundabouts that joins east and west... it is a major roundabout and has major connections...it is an important roundabout.

3. Because it is a different topic...The first was about charges legality and the second is about signs legality...

why have you grouped them together? just because I am the same person? or because I am talking about a 'major' roundabout? would you group everyone's post to mine querying Gallows corner now? I would like them ungrouped please.

4. Just because a 'no right turn ' sign has been placed somewhere does not make it legal. I really want to know the legality. Roads and highway's need laws/orders/regulations to follow...that's why we have laws/orders/regulations...


AND WHY ARE YOU HAVING A GO AT ME??? and picking on my words 'major'?? I HAVENT DONE ANYTHING WRONG....I just want answers
« Last Edit: September 25, 2025, 05:14:37 pm by Bradley-29 »
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Re: Gallows Corner roundabout RM3 8AA Harold hill - PCN query
« Reply #17 on: »
I merged the 2 threads as they seem to concern the same topic, namely the temporary changes to the particular roundabout and approach roads, and any PCNs that unwitting motorists might receive as a result.

Given any PCNs would arise from the contravention of restrictions communicated by the signs, they would seem to concern the same broad topic...

I will leave those with relevant expertise to comment on any legal points. My layman's point about the 'no right turn' was that if one were seeking to argue that the signs are not properly visible when turning right, that argument might be weakened by the fact that performing such a turn in the first place appears to be prohibited.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2025, 05:29:03 pm by DWMB2 »
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Re: Gallows Corner roundabout RM3 8AA Harold hill - PCN query
« Reply #18 on: »
ok that's fine...I understand and can accept that..

So can anyone assist with the legality of the signs please? Are the road signs legal?

also

1. Can TFL single out general vehicles with a Temporary traffic order? For example - can TFL say a road is closed and only authorised vehicles can use the road? Authorised vehicles being emergency vehicles, busses, black cabs and authorised vehicles?

2. Do TFL need to make a temporary traffic regulation order available to the public and easily available for the public to view?


3. I have searched and cannot find a temporary traffic order for the Gallows corner major closure. The only temporary traffic order was back in 2022 for Queen Elizabeth II. Am I missing something?

4. Is there an active temporary order currently in place for Gallows corner flyover replacement to allow TFL to temporarily restrict or prohibit the use of the road by vehicles. Or can someone show me where to look for this order?

5. Can TFL issue a penalty charge for general vehicles using the roundabout during the Gallows corner flyover works? Or do they need another order to be allowed to issue a PCN?

All help much appreciated in advance
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Re: Gallows Corner roundabout RM3 8AA Harold hill - PCN query
« Reply #19 on: »
1. Yes

2. "Available" - yes. "Easily available" - how long is a piece of string?

3. Have you asked TfL?

4. Don't know.

5. AFAIK, yes
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Re: Gallows Corner roundabout RM3 8AA Harold hill - PCN query
« Reply #20 on: »

2. Shouldn't it be easily available? If they don't make it available...is it null and void?

3. Yes I have, they keep avoiding the answer by asking me a question...and ignoring my question... and taking 20 days to respond under the FOI act...only to reply with a question... I have had no answers

4. AFAIK - is not good enough. where is your factual proof?

I appreciate your reply though
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Re: Gallows Corner roundabout RM3 8AA Harold hill - PCN query
« Reply #21 on: »
Quote
They have not made any temporary traffic regulation orders available to facilitate the closure.

Have you contacted TfL as I suggested to find out when the TTO was ordered and where you can view it?

If not I think your claim is a bit questionable - especially where such a major and lengthy closure is involved. I found where the proposal was published and I agree it doesn't prove that the order was actually made. But I'd be surprised if it wasn't.
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Re: Gallows Corner roundabout RM3 8AA Harold hill - PCN query
« Reply #22 on: »


4. AFAIK - is not good enough. where is your factual proof?

I appreciate your reply though
[/quote]
I think you mean 5?

Section 36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 makes it an offence not to comply with a lawfully-placed road sign. In specific areas - e.g. London - that offence has been "decriminalised", and can be enforced by the highway authority.

So, yes, TfL can issue a PCN provided the sign has been lawfully placed, which brings us back to your original question about the TRO. Like New Judge, I'd be very surprised if there isn't one in place, but stranger things have happened.

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