Author Topic: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?  (Read 314 times)

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John Glacier

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Can a single carriage way road have a say 40mph limit one way and a 50mph limit coming the other way?

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cp8759

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Re: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2024, 09:57:16 pm »
Can a single carriage way road have a say 40mph limit one way and a 50mph limit coming the other way?
I don't see how that could be enforceable, what happens if someone does a u-turn?
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

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Southpaw82

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Re: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2024, 10:04:05 pm »
Can they? Yes. The real question is why would you?

tonys

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Re: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2024, 10:03:09 pm »
An example where it would be helpful is road works, to slow approaching traffic.

cp8759

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Re: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2024, 09:09:15 am »
I still see signage as being an issue. There is no authorised regulatory sign to tell someone that if they do a u-turn they are subject to a different speed limit.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

tonys

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Re: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2024, 11:24:46 am »
I still see signage as being an issue. There is no authorised regulatory sign to tell someone that if they do a u-turn they are subject to a different speed limit.
Or visiting a property and going back the way thy came, which could also happen on a dual carriageway. Normally there are repeaters but between the U turn and the first repeater there'd be nothing to indicate the limit.

However the same would apply to someone living their property for the first time after the limit had been imposed. In fact quite often temporary limits aren't even signed where roads, even quite big ones, join within a temporary limit.

guest968

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Re: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2024, 05:42:20 pm »
In fact quite often temporary limits aren't even signed where roads, even quite big ones, join within a temporary limit.
I believe they are supposed to be, so if they aren't you'd have a pretty sound defence if you got nabbed between the junction and the first sign.
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roythebus

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Re: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2024, 07:48:22 pm »
There is a section of the A10 at Cheshunt where the northbound limit is 40 and the southbound limit is 50, but that is dual carriageway.
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The Rookie

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Re: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2024, 08:11:45 pm »
I have this on a single carriageway road near me, NSL one way, 50mph the other.
The council here are singular numpties and I expect itís just an F up, but they still canít tell me even which is the correct one of the two limits!
(Noting they now have installed a system of street lighting at one end which would otherwise change it but I can Guarentee there is no order, there are no repeaters).
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Reentrant

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Re: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2024, 01:20:03 pm »
Several years ago there were long-term roadworks at the Longbarrow roundabout on the A303 just west of Stonehenge.

It was temporary 40 for a mile or so approaching the roundabout from either direction, but 50 as soon as you were past it. It's (infamously) single-carriageway both east and west.

I've never seen permanent different limits on single carriageway

andy_foster

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Re: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2024, 07:24:57 pm »
Getting back to the original question - it would see logical to re-write it along the lines of-

"If an Order purported to impose different speed limits in different lanes* intended for different direction of travel on a single carriageway road, would such an Order be lawful" - which could then be considered as to whether it was intra or ultra vires in respect of the enabling legislation, and whether it fell foul of some other public law rule (such as being Wednesbury unreasonable), or was for some improper purpose.

Presumably, we are considering Orders made under the authority of s. 84 RTRA 1984. This provides for speed limits to be applied to a "road".
"Road" is defined in s. 142 (for England and Wales) as "any length of highway or of any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes"

Absent any case law on the narrow point, it would seem to depend on whether a judge decided that the operative word was "any" or "length".

* Perhaps the first "obvious" question would be whether we were discussing different speed limits for the westbound and eastbound lanes (for example) of a single carriageway road, as opposed to different speed limits for the entire width of the carriageway depending on direction of travel.
Whilst "any length" of road might be interpreted to include the westbound lane but not the eastbound lane, unless vehicles travelling westbound could be considered a separate class of vehicle, I'm struggling to see any vires[/i for the latter.
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cp8759

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Re: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2024, 08:51:41 pm »
* Perhaps the first "obvious" question would be whether we were discussing different speed limits for the westbound and eastbound lanes (for example) of a single carriageway road, as opposed to different speed limits for the entire width of the carriageway depending on direction of travel.
I like this idea, it would mean that when you're overtaking and you're in the faster lane you can go that much faster.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

slapdash

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Re: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2024, 08:28:01 am »
You could move to Spain.

An extra 20 kp/h is allowed when overtaking on non urban SC roads

cp8759

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Re: Can roads have separate speedlimits in opposite directions?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2024, 10:27:31 am »
You could move to Spain.

An extra 20 kp/h is allowed when overtaking on non urban SC roads
I don't like warm climates, and they drive on the wrong side of the road...
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order