Author Topic: Alleged 40mph in a 20 + Wheelies and Weaving  (Read 3958 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

tyronejiggles

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Alleged 40mph in a 20 + Wheelies and Weaving
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2025, 05:17:22 pm »
@Southpaw82

Hi, thanks again for your response. That is an interesting suggestion, how would one offer a plea as part of a negotiation? (I was under the impression that this was really only a thing in the US)

Southpaw82

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +15/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Alleged 40mph in a 20 + Wheelies and Weaving
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2025, 07:16:58 pm »
Literally ask the prosecutor if they will drop the speeding if you plead guilty to the careless driving. I’d want to do it on a controlled basis, e.g. you admit to pulling a wheelie once for a short period. Enough to keep you below 6 points.
I am not qualified to give legal advice in the UK. While I will do my best to help you, you should not rely on my advice as if it was given by a lawyer qualified in the UK.

tyronejiggles

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hi everyone, hope all is well. I've previously posted on FTLA regarding this case but there have been major developments so I will summarise the case and outline my defence and I'd really appreciate some advice on how to proceed.

Case Details:

Charges: Speeding (allegedly 40mph in a 20mph zone) and Careless Driving (relating to alleged weaving in and out of traffic as well as pulling wheelies).
Plea: Not Guilty.
Trial scheduled for 30 March 2026 (no case management or other hearing scheduled).
Crucial Factor: I am a "new driver" (licensed for less than two years), meaning a conviction resulting in 6 or more penalty points will lead to the revocation of my license. Clean license so far. Been nearly a year since the alleged offence. SJP received around 5 and a half months after alleged offence. Trial set for just over a year after alleged offence.

Case details:
One officer has provided a written witness statement and in this, he claims:
1. I was clearly travelling in excess of the posted 20mph limit and visibly travelling faster than all other road users. He does not say that he performed a pace check, or measured my speed in any other way (speed gun, etc).
2. He is satisfied that the manner of my riding fell below that of a careful and competent driver, saying he'd describe my riding as driving without due care based on the speed at which I was riding, as well as as the wheelies he alleges I was performing at speed and weaving in and out of traffic at speed.

He puts forwarded video evidence in the form of his BWV (QDC/1) and council CCTV of the incident showing my vehicle clearly travelling faster than other traffic (QDC/2).

He then states that he pointed out the offence(s) as:
139 - Excess speed (20mph) local order - Speed LTI 20-20
192 - Driving without due care

and that he said "I am reporting you for the question to be considered of prosecuting you for these offences. You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now something which you later rely on in court, anything you do say may be given in evidence".

My girlfriend was on the back of my motorcycle which would obviously be a major aggravating factor.

Summary of Merits / Key Defence Issues:

I have already had a detailed consultation with Nick Freeman which identified numerous and serious weaknesses in the prosecution's case. The key points are as follows:

I do not believe I was speeding and definitely not pulling any wheelies and contest all allegations

Fundamental Procedural Failure (No Valid NIP): There is a strong argument to be made (Mr. Freeman claims) that a valid verbal Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) was not given at the roadside. Unbeknownst to the officer at the time, I recorded the vast majority of the interaction on my mobile phone that I was holding by my side in a manner that didn't make it clear that I was recording. I began this recording straight after getting off of the motorcycle as ordered and handing over my driving license. My own video recording of the stop appears to show the officer failed to provide an effective caution and thus I contest that no NIP was issued.

Now what he actually said, word for word, is:
"You’ve been reported for offences for which there are various options available to police depending on the type of offences committed and your eligibility. This could be a conditional offer of fixed penalty, a diversionary course or prosecution. You will be informed in due course of the action the police intend to take and the options available to you. You are not required to do anything until you receive further communication from the Metropolitan Police Traffic Prosecutions Unit. For any further information you can refer to the Met Police website."

He never named any offences like he claims he did (though I submit that the prosecution would likely claim that he made the speeding allegation obvious through statements like slow it down or do you know how fast you were going, or his colleague stating I could've killed somebody etc etc). Apart from this, I'm 100% sure that the words "without due care or attention" were never uttered as evident in this video footage.

Missing Prosecution Evidence: Now rather conveniently, following my not guilty plea causing the case to go to trial and exit the SJP process, this primary officer (PC Cameron) has provided another witness statement where he states that whilst his Body Worn Video was recording at the time, it is no longer available as it had not been saved. This is highly suspicious and prevents an objective review of the roadside procedure and conversation. I believe he may have watched the video back and realised his failure to caution. No mention has been made of the council camera footage that allegedly shows me travelling "faster than any other road user" (I'm not sure what this would prove even if it did exist).

Legally Insufficient Speeding Charge: The speeding charge appears to be fundamentally flawed as:
No calibrated speed check (laser, pace check, etc.) was said to have been performed in the only witness statement.
The allegation relies solely on the officer's statement, which is legally insufficient for a conviction without corroboration.
The officer’s statement falsely claims a speed was recorded using an "LTI 2020" device, which was not present or used. This is evident as none of the statement narrative refers to any device, the newbie officer likely picked the wrong offence code on his tablet.

Significant Officer Credibility Issues: The combination of a fabrication in the witness statement (regarding the NIP and pointing out the offences), the missing bodycam footage, and the offence code logged on the system put together create a challenge to the credibility of the prosecution's sole witness. The prosecution's case rests entirely on the testimony of an officer whose credibility is demonstrably questionable on multiple fronts.

Given these significant issues, I believe my case has strong prospects of success with effective representation. I have the officer's witness statement, all court correspondence, and my own video footage ready review.

Now, weaknesses:

The officer alleges that he pointed out the offences at 23:00 yet my footage begins at 23:02. Now, the officer makes one other reference to time and that was at 22:50 when he says he first saw me. In the start of the footage, you see at least 3 or 4 officers deliberating for around 40 seconds on what they saw me doing before the testifying officer approaches me saying "now, where do you live [my name]?", then proceeding to ask about where I am coming from/going to, giving me a bollocking, etc before making the statement I got on video followed by "slow down" and storming off. The video is around 6 minutes. I can see the prosecution possibly alleging that he would've cautioned me at the very start but I don't see how that makes sense because he simply ordered me off the bike and asked for my drivers license, why would he caution me, then go away, come back, give me a bollocking and THEN read out that statement I quote from the video?

There was another officer present who could easily 'back the blue' and help back up her fellow colleague by making her own similar corroborative statements.

I don't have any statutory defence for the careless offence apart from the NIP argument as well as my own word whereas for speeding there is currently one officer's witness statement and nothing else.

So...

What does the forum think? Should I instruct a lawyer for a not guilty plea to both charges? Freeman & Co's advice was invaluable but their costs for a full trial are out of my budget... Virtually every lawyer contests that my careless driving defence is still somewhat weak. There is also this other officer who was at the scene but never provided a statement. I suppose if they corroborate this officer I'm screwed anyway.

Regardless of my denials, I do not want to waste my money on a lawyer and have this in the back of mind until March if I am going against a justice system that is never going to acquit me. And if I am convicted of either charge I will very likely still lose my license (and I've ran quotes, no one will insure me after).

Should I fight both charges? Should I fight the speeding but not the careless then try mitigation for the careless? Should I plead guilty to both? Would fighting the speeding but pleading guilty for careless result in less leniency? What would you put my odds of acquittal at on each of the two charges, and if convicted, what would you estimate the penalty to be given passenger as aggravating factor and the following as potential mitigation: clean license, taken further license test after offence (A2 to A license), severe mental health issues (anxiety and depression) on NHS file, previous CBT therapy, currently in private therapy, private healthcare documented bladder issues necessitating frequent urination.

666

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
  • Karma: +11/-10
    • View Profile
Re: Alleged 40mph in a 20 + Wheelies and Weaving
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2025, 05:39:56 pm »
With regard to potential mitigation, most of the health issues you mention actually make things worse. If they really affect your driving, should you be driving at all?

The clean licence and further test are not mitigation.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Southpaw82

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Karma: +15/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Alleged 40mph in a 20 + Wheelies and Weaving
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2025, 05:51:16 pm »
Why on earth are you asking us if you’re getting legal advice (that you appear to have waived privilege over to a large extent)?
I am not qualified to give legal advice in the UK. While I will do my best to help you, you should not rely on my advice as if it was given by a lawyer qualified in the UK.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

tyronejiggles

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Alleged 40mph in a 20 + Wheelies and Weaving
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2025, 06:08:21 pm »
@Southpaw82

because I haven’t paid for representation at trial yet, only for a consultation with Freeman. I am looking to see what my options are. As it stands, I plan to write to Met prosecutions and ask for charges to be dropped given all the procedural holes. If that fails, I plan on offering to plead guilty on careless if they drop speeding. Then hiring representation for mitigation. But I am financially limited so wanted to see if this was a sound strategy before committing to it.

ManxTom

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile


... My girlfriend was on the back of my motorcycle which would obviously be a major aggravating factor...


Er....

This seems to be the first time that you mentioned your girlfriend was on the bike...

[Edit for spelling...]
« Last Edit: October 17, 2025, 02:49:08 pm by ManxTom »

mickR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 776
  • Karma: +18/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Alleged 40mph in a 20 + Wheelies and Weaving
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2025, 10:39:58 pm »
if you were pulling wheelies with your girlfriend on the back i would have thought the verbal exchange with the Plod would have included mention of how dangerous that would be, maybe attracting a DD charge  ???
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Dave Green

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Karma: +0/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Alleged 40mph in a 20 + Wheelies and Weaving
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2025, 01:40:52 am »
There's one thing that doesn't make any sense to me.
You have continually denied committing the offences yet you have stated:

I've since upgraded my license from A2 to A around 2 months ago in order to improve my skills and awareness as a result of this offence

Why would you feel the need to improve both your riding skill and awareness "as a result of this offence" if you are so sure that you didn't commit the offences?

DWMB2

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4197
  • Karma: +129/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Alleged 40mph in a 20 + Wheelies and Weaving
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2025, 01:53:33 pm »
I'm not sure the OP has continually denied committing the offence...
The reality may be more that I am trying to see what they can prove. Would that be an unadvisable approach?

Dave Green

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Karma: +0/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Alleged 40mph in a 20 + Wheelies and Weaving
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2025, 02:13:49 pm »
I'm not sure the OP has continually denied committing the offence...

I do not believe I was speeding and definitely not pulling any wheelies and contest all allegations
It's in bold as that's how the OP wrote it.

@NewJudge
Unsure, but definitely not 40mph.

Contesting the "Without Due Care" Charge:
I deny the allegations. I will be pleading not guilty on the basis that I was not riding in the manner described (no wheelies or dangerous weaving).

Mayhem007

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Alleged 40mph in a 20 + Wheelies and Weaving
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2025, 05:10:20 pm »
If you have pleaded not guilty to the alleged offences, you are entitled to disclosures of the evidence, which incorporates any statements and video evidence. Video evidence will corroberate the police officers evidence. Whilst there is no mention of a second police officer, however if there was two officers then each officer can corroberate the other officers evidence.

What ever device they use, this needs to be corroberated by the police officers evidence.

Police officers are highly trained, competent and experienced in such matters.

There is no second guessing what the police officer saw or did not see, your defence will be extremely flimsy. You have to look at what you did or not do at the time. If there is good possibility that you did at some point commit the allegations, then you must consider changing your plea to guilty. Also, consider if you had been riding longer than the 2 year probation period, would you still be wandering down the path of pleading not guilty.