Author Topic: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit  (Read 2484 times)

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UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
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Hello All

Got a parking ticket out doing a delivery shift with someone else's car (properly insured to do so), driver is not the keeper. I delivered to two buildings from the locations from the online retailer.

I have access to a payment page showing my delivery shift. But not the addresses I deliver to - as you can imagine with GDPR they dont now want us to hang on to addresses and names we deliver, any longer than necessary.

I also have a third party motor insurance that covers for the shifts and they independqantly have an engaged and disengaged time which shows when I started my shift and when I did my last delivery. That could be a 2nd evidence for my delivery.

I would have been able to provide exact proof that I was doing deliveries if I had screenshotted the app while I was on the shift. The attendant did not issue a windscreen ticket and took photos and went via letter route - is that proper way to do it?

If I had a CCTV ticket, the operater would have seen my taken out parcel to deliver and see the total time I was there did not exceed more than 10 minutes. I could have raised that issue with POPLA - requesting them provde the full footage of the stay and to review the footage to see if I took parcels out.

Since the attendant was there - they should give me a windscreen ticket so I know about the penality at the time and take my screenshots.

A very long time ago I successfully appealed these tickets through POPLA with the NTK/NTO. I completely forgot which was which. Appealed on grounds of liability does not transfer etc.

The land lacks signage and looks like derelict land, you cannot even notice any bay markings there. I do not think I drove by any signs. The photo of the sign theey shows was quite far back in the wall, under a nasty leaky aircon unit. That could be mistaken for a urination spot - who wants to walk up there?



« Last Edit: November 20, 2025, 02:32:53 pm by Plywood-Enthusiast »

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Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #1 on: »
To save everyone some time. here are the attendant photos. It wasnt that I never found a windscreen ticket on my windscreen. they never put any on. As evidenced by their own photos. Please note the elapsed time on the photos. They dont span very long.






Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #2 on: »
You may wish to amend your original post so the driver is not identified.

The NtK is not PoFA compliant so there is no keeper liability - the period of parking is not stated - whilst the additional pictures may show a period of parking, these are not shown on the NtK.

Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #3 on: »
You may wish to amend your original post so the driver is not identified.

The NtK is not PoFA compliant so there is no keeper liability - the period of parking is not stated - whilst the additional pictures may show a period of parking, these are not shown on the NtK.

Thanks. I think I sorted out the identification of the driver. I presume it was the relation to keeper mentioned? and nothing else?

The insurance documents will have driver details. I presume I present that evidence at the POPLA appeal and never to UKPC.


Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #4 on: »
You may wish to amend your original post so the driver is not identified.

The NtK is not PoFA compliant so there is no keeper liability - the period of parking is not stated - whilst the additional pictures may show a period of parking, these are not shown on the NtK.

Thanks. I think I sorted out the identification of the driver. I presume it was the relation to keeper mentioned? and nothing else?
You use the word “I” all the time. But if the keeper has named you as the driver it doesn’t matter any more.

Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #5 on: »
oh that, "i" as in plywood enthusiast? Is that an issue?

No haven't been in touch with them at all. They dont know who the driver is.

I'm just relaying my account to FTLA to give the full scope of the issue.. POPLA stage hasn't started yet. I am looking for advice on how to do the informal/internal appeal - its worth a shot to appeal without giving any driver information - although that would be difficult to do.

Is there a link on how to do the POFA non-complaint angle. If I recall correctly, you wait just before 28 days to do the internal appeal state the parking invoice is not pofa complaint and ask for POPLA code and then hope they dont send out a POFA compliant letter, wait 56 days since issuance of original letter and tell POPLA they havent sent a POFA complaint letter.

I thought the lack of windscreen ticket was a major issue, attendant clearly took photos in person so why didnt they issue a ticket there and then?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2025, 02:55:35 pm by Plywood-Enthusiast »

Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #6 on: »
Jeez, what a waste of time and effort all this waffle about insurance etc. All we need to know is whether the drivers identity has been identified. You state you were the driver but are not the Keeper of the vehicle.

Unless the Keeper has thrown you under the bus by identifying you as the driver, you have no part to play in any appeal at this stage. As the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is addressed to the Keeper, only the named Keeper can appeal.

Irrespective of everything else, whether the driver has been identified and they have received a new notice in their name or whether the Keeper appeals in their capacity as the Keeper, neither will pay a penny to UKPC if they follow the advice here.

Whilst the NtK is not PoFA compliant which means that the Keeper cannot be liable if the driver is not identified, that does not mean they will not continue to pursue this all the way to a county court claim. There is very little chance that a POPLA appeal would succeed either.

All you need to know is that once a county court claim is filed, as long as it is defended with the template defence we provide, it will, in due course, be discontinued.

All you need to know for now, is that all debt recovery letters can be safely ignored as debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and intimidate the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of ignorance and fear.

So, the first thing we need to know, has the driver been identified? If not, then the Keeper has to do the appeal. We will advise on that once the status of the driver is known. Identified or not.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #7 on: »
Jeez, what a waste of time and effort all this waffle about insurance etc. All we need to know is whether the drivers identity has been identified. You state you were the driver but are not the Keeper of the vehicle.

Unless the Keeper has thrown you under the bus by identifying you as the driver, you have no part to play in any appeal at this stage. As the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is addressed to the Keeper, only the named Keeper can appeal.

Irrespective of everything else, whether the driver has been identified and they have received a new notice in their name or whether the Keeper appeals in their capacity as the Keeper, neither will pay a penny to UKPC if they follow the advice here.

Whilst the NtK is not PoFA compliant which means that the Keeper cannot be liable if the driver is not identified, that does not mean they will not continue to pursue this all the way to a county court claim. There is very little chance that a POPLA appeal would succeed either.

All you need to know is that once a county court claim is filed, as long as it is defended with the template defence we provide, it will, in due course, be discontinued.

All you need to know for now, is that all debt recovery letters can be safely ignored as debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and intimidate the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of ignorance and fear.

So, the first thing we need to know, has the driver been identified? If not, then the Keeper has to do the appeal. We will advise on that once the status of the driver is known. Identified or not.

That has been address in my post just before^

No haven't been in touch with them at all. They dont know who the driver is.

RK is a member of the household. It's not a nod and a wink "someone who isn't the keeper did that", genuinly RK and driver are two seperate people.



For the time being I will draft an informal appeal to UKPC and send it through the RK to file.. just to get the POPLA case reference.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2025, 06:14:22 pm by Plywood-Enthusiast »

Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #8 on: »
If you want help here, from people who do so out of interest and because they want to help people, I suggest you need to be more helpful in your interactions. Saying “I’ve already told you” to someone trying to help isn’t going to advance your cause.

Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #9 on: »
The driver hasn't been identified. It would be sensible to keep it that way.

Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #10 on: »
If the OP is not the RK, but wants to assist the RK, a family member, then the OP can just do everything in the RKs name. This is not some clandestine operation to deceive anyone.

No initial appeal is going to be successful, no matter how prosaic the appeal. There is no money in it for these scammers. You are not dealing with some corporate organisation with a dedicated customer service ethos. This firm is a bunch of ex clamper thugs who are members of the BPA cartel. They want your money and will pursue the RK all the way to a county court claim.

You may also want to think that POPLA is some kind of independent organisation. They aren’t. They are a private business, funded by he very same firms they are supposedly adjudicating. POPLA assessors are, in general, just ordinary people who have received some minimal training. They aren’t not legally qualified in any way. Some of them are utter morons with very little ability to understand contract law. POPLA are answerable to no one. There is no overreaching organisation or ombudsman that they must answer to.

If POPLA accept the appeal, then good. However, if they don’t, their decision is not binding on the appellant. They can be safely ignored. It is the next step of the process where most of the low-hanging fruit are picked off.

The debt recovery stage is designed to intimidate the gullible into paying up because the majority are ignorant of their rights and how this process works. Suddenly they start receiving letters from debt collectors which threaten all sorts of nastiness and throw in scary words like “CCJ” and Bailiff” etc. suddenly, a fake £70 has been added and the recipient goes into “poop their pants” mode and many just pay up because of their ignorance of how the debt recovery system works,

Suffice it to say, debt collectors are not a party to any contract allegedly breached by the driver. They are powerless except to be able to prey on the majority of victims ignorance of the civil justice system. It doesn’t help that most people will have no idea about the difference between the civil and criminal justice system.

The number of motorists we deal with here, think that “court” is the equivalent of a wigged judge, robes, barristers and so on. Their ignorance of the system extends to nightmares that one a claim is issued, they have a CCJ and their credit record is trashed. Again, the majority, who have not been educated by us, capitulate and pay up, as I say, out of ignorance and fear.

However, nothing could be further from the truth and these scamming firms know it but hate us for making a tiny pinprick in their armour and profits. In the vast majority of cases, these vexatious firms of scamming ex-clampers never follow through all the way to a hearing.

In most cases, the claim will either be struck out or discontinued. They don’t want a spanking in court. They know their witness statements are mendacious. Their adherence to the law is tenuous, at best. Most defendants are unsure of their rights and consumer law. Most have no idea how contract law works in these cases.

In the very few that ever get as far as a hearing, the majority are won. The very few that are not successful end up paying less than the original claim amount because most judges are aware of the fake add on £70 fees which are an attempt at “double recovery” and opens the claimant up to costs orders for unreasonable behaviour.

I can say with greater than 99.9% confidence, that in this case, a UKPC claimant will be represented by DCB Legal for the claim. As long as the claim is defended, and we provide the template for the defence, the claim will either be struck out of discontinued just before they have to pay the £27 trial fee.

The process takes approximately 9-12+ months from receipt of the PCN to successful conclusion. There is a bit of time involved in the appeal process and the defence and Directions Questionnaire  submission but apart from that, you are hand held all the way through the process.

So, the advice, should you care to take it, is to make as little effort as necessary on the initial appeal, put some minimal effort in the POPLA appeal and, if unsuccessful, ignore the useless debt recovery stage and come back when a Letter of Claim (LoC) is received and defend and win with a greater than 99.9% chance of success.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2025, 07:46:24 am by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #11 on: »
This is the advice I give for the initial appeal:  There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. UKPC has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. UKPC have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #12 on: »
Thanks b789

I will copy paste that into the informal appeal on behalf of the keeper.

I do not want to put that on the keeper and stress them out with fake baliff letters sent in their name. I really want this quashed at POPLA and do all angles, including the fact that driver was there legitimately doing deliveries, lack of signage of parking rules etc.

Can the keeper name the driver at popla stage passed 56 days of sending the letter out?

My plan of action.

informal appeal based on ^ on day 28 of notice.
expect a rejecton at informal appeal
file popla appeal on 28 days of rejection.

Hopefully the elongation of time of  at least 56 days at least means UKPC are too late to send anything to driver after driver is identified for POPLA appeal.

Does that make sense?


« Last Edit: November 25, 2025, 11:09:14 am by Plywood-Enthusiast »

Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #13 on: »
Can the keeper name the driver at popla stage passed 56 days of sending the letter out?
The keeper can name the driver at any point before the commencement of proceedings.

However, the driver would not have the benefit of any of the defences offered by UKPC's lack of PoFA compliance.

Letters from debt collectors need not be a source of stress - despite their shrill protestations they are ultimately powerless to do anything other than issue letters.

Re: UKPC: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
« Reply #14 on: »
Can the keeper name the driver at popla stage passed 56 days of sending the letter out?
The keeper can name the driver at any point before the commencement of proceedings.

However, the driver would not have the benefit of any of the defences offered by UKPC's lack of PoFA compliance.

Letters from debt collectors need not be a source of stress - despite their shrill protestations they are ultimately powerless to do anything other than issue letters.

I understand, the last time I did this I recall being told after a number of days the identification of driver is useless to them because UKPC have a deadline to issue notice to driver from infraction. After a certain time they cannot do this. This was from the old pepipoo forum advice.

If that is no longer a case, then can I do a POPLA appeal with delivery proofs by redacting the driver name? That would involve using the delivery invoice with blacked out driver names.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2025, 11:14:26 am by Plywood-Enthusiast »