Author Topic: UK Parking Patrol Office PCN - unloading overstay - Wembely private road  (Read 1127 times)

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Hello, the driver has been issued a parking charge notice from UK Parking Patrol Office for overstaying a 20 minute unloading period by 8 minutes. However the entry and exit times are at the beginning and exit of the road using ANPR cameras, the road is Wembley, Olympic Way East. The signage states 20 minutes parking for unloading which is what was agreed too and abided by.

Here is my rejected appeal:
I believe these are valid grounds for appeal, the signage indicates 20 minutes for parking, however the PCN details for entry and exit times start when entering and leaving this single lane one way road. The parking duration on the PCN is overestimated as the driver has not parked and/or started to read the terms and conditions when the PCN entry time starts. As i was on duty working on behalf of Amazon i believe the car was parked to unload at 12:20 and finished and unparked at 12:39. This is the total time parked which the driver agreed to when reading the signage and terms and conditions. Overall, the PCN details are incorrect as the driver agreed to a 20 minute parking signage which the driver complied too, however the PCN details show entry and exit times for the whole length of the road and not when the car is parked, the time includes travel time throughtout the road and does not account for the driver reading and agreeing to the signage.

Their reply:
Thank you for your letter of appeal against the Parking Charge Notice issued by us on 15/10/2024. Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons:

The vehicle was captured via Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras entering and exiting Atlantic/Pacific Crescent, which is private land and well signed with silver contractual notices stating; “Parking In This Area Is Only For the Purpose Of Loading/Unloading. 20 Minute Maximum Stay. No Return Within 1 Hour/No Grace Period Applies”.

Please be advised that the above vehicle registration mark was captured entering the location and again upon exiting, as can be seen on the photographic evidence that has been provided to you. Therefore, the driver exceeded the maximum stay, and the cameras automatically issued a PCN. We are not claiming that you parked incorrectly, and we do not hold images or footage of the vehicle at the location, only of it entering and exiting. This is how an ANPR site works. No evidence has been provided to confirm the vehicle was booked on the system in place which would give you a time window for your visit.

In summation, it is the driver’s responsibility to ensure that they comply with the terms of the contract entered into when parking on private land. If they fail to do so they agree to pay the parking charge in accordance with the terms of the contract.

https://imgur.com/a/Qz4dsF3

https://imgur.com/a/Gcfa8gn

https://imgur.com/a/rTkhxqX

There is no google maps street view for further down the road where the vehicle was parked, however there is a loading/unloading bay outside the apartement with signage i believe says 20 minutes max stay for loading/unloading no return 1 hour.

Im happy to provide more information to help with this appeal.

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Re: UK Parking Patrol Office PCN - unloading overstay - Wembely private road
« Reply #1 on: »
The IAS are unlikely to accept any appeal, just as UKPPO did not either. However, whilst I normally would not advise wasting time and effort on an IAS appeal (less than 5% success rate), in this instance, it may be worth a shot.

However, please realise that, should the appeal not be successful, this would certain be worth challenging all the way to a claim in the small claims track of the county court should UPPPO want to take it that far. There is persuasive case law that shows that their signage is unable to form a contract.

In the persuasive appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard (2016) [B9GF0A9E] in paragraphs 20-21, HHJ Harris QC distinguished “parking” from “loading/unloading,” noting:

“Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it … a vehicle engaged in loading or unloading is not ‘parked’ in the ordinary sense of the term.”

Additionally, the signage does not specify that the 20-minute limit applies to the entire time on the land, not just "loading and unloading" or "parked". Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, contract terms must be fair, transparent, and unambiguous. If the signage was intended to enforce a time limit for the total duration on the land (including time driving along the road), this should have been clearly stated.

Here is some suggested wording for the IAS appeal that you may want to consider, for what it's worth:

Quote
Appeal to IAS: Denial of Contractual Liability

I, as the registered keeper, deny any contractual liability for the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued by UK Parking Patrol Office. The signage terms are contradictory and ambiguous, rendering compliance impossible. My appeal is based on the following points:

1. Contradictory and Legally Impossible Signage Terms

The signage states, “Parking is only allowed whilst loading and unloading.” This creates an impossible condition, as “loading/unloading” is not synonymous with “parking.” In Jopson v Homeguard (2016) B9GF0A9E, HHJ Harris QC distinguished “parking” from “loading/unloading,” noting:

“Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it … a vehicle engaged in loading or unloading is not ‘parked’ in the ordinary sense of the term.”

The signage demands that the vehicle be both “parked” and engaged in “loading/unloading,” which is inherently contradictory. Since the driver was engaged solely in unloading goods as part of official duties, the vehicle was not “parked” and therefore cannot have breached any terms regarding a parking duration.

2. ANPR Limitations and Inaccurate Time Representation

The PCN is based on ANPR-captured entry and exit times, which inaccurately represent the actual unloading period. These times reflect entry and exit from the road, not the duration during which the vehicle was stationary and actively unloading. The signage does not specify that the 20-minute limit applies to the entire time on the land, nor does it clarify that ANPR timings would be used in this way.

3. Breach of Consumer Rights Act 2015 – Requirement for Clear and Transparent Terms

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, contract terms must be fair, transparent, and unambiguous. If the signage was intended to enforce a time limit for the total duration on the land (including time driving along the road), this should have been clearly stated. The current wording misleads drivers into understanding that the 20-minute limit applies to time spent actively loading or unloading.

This ambiguity is fundamentally unfair, as it creates confusion and imposes an unreasonable penalty on drivers who act in accordance with the apparent purpose of the signage. Without explicit clarification, the terms are legally invalid under the CRA.

4. Denial of Contractual Liability

For these reasons, I deny any contractual liability. The vehicle was not “parked” and was present only to unload goods, as allowed by the signage. The ambiguous terms on the signage make it impossible to determine that any contract was breached.

Conclusion

Due to the contradictory and unclear terms on the signage, the flawed use of ANPR to determine unloading duration, and the CRA requirement for clear and transparent terms, I request that the IAS cancel this PCN. The driver’s actions complied with the signage's intended purpose, and no enforceable breach of contract occurred.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2024, 10:22:04 am by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UK Parking Patrol Office PCN - unloading overstay - Wembely private road
« Reply #2 on: »
I appeal through the IAS and got this reply;
We enforce the parking restrictions at: Atlantic / Pacific Crescent, Wembley, Middlesex. HA9 0PZ. Parking in this area is only allowed for the purpose of loading/unloading, restricted to a 20- Minute maximum stay with no return within 1-hour. There is also no grace period.

The above vehicle exceeded the maximum stay.

Please see the following attachments:

1. Postal PCN.
2. Appeal Correspondence.
3. Vehicle entry
4. Vehicle exit

The above VRM was captured via the ANPR system entering the area at 12:16:44 on the 06/10/2024 and again upon exiting at 12:45:26, as seen on attachment 1. Therefore, the driver exceeded the maximum stay of 20-minutes (25minutes in total) and incurred a Parking Charge Notice.

The appellant confirms they were in the area at the time of the contravention, however they are permitted to remain within the area for a maximum of 20 minutes only. We do not hold images or footage of the vehicle at the location, only of it entering and exiting, this is how an ANPR site works.  As can be seen on pre-loaded attachments there are numerous signs around the area including at the entrance advising drivers of the restrictions in place. ANPR cameras captured the vehicle entering and exiting the area (attachments 3&4), this is time/date stamped and is evidence the vehicle remained within the restricted area for over the allowed 20 minutes period.

As the appellant overstayed the allowed 20minutes period the parking charge was issued correctly. No evidence has been provided to conform the vehicle was booked on the system in place to obtain a time window or that the appellant had permission to park over to allowed time period. Signage within the area has been audited to ensure all required standards are met.

In summation, the terms and conditions of the parking contract, and all charges, are well advertised throughout the development. By remaining at the site, the driver accepted all of the prevailing terms & conditions of the contract, including the charges for breach of that contract.

Kind regards

E Jane
UK Parking Patrol Office Ltd

What would you recommend on how to procee

The IAS are unlikely to accept any appeal, just as UKPPO did not either. However, whilst I normally would not advise wasting time and effort on an IAS appeal (less than 5% success rate), in this instance, it may be worth a shot.

However, please realise that, should the appeal not be successful, this would certain be worth challenging all the way to a claim in the small claims track of the county court should UPPPO want to take it that far. There is persuasive case law that shows that their signage is unable to form a contract.

In the persuasive appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard (2016) [B9GF0A9E] in paragraphs 20-21, HHJ Harris QC distinguished “parking” from “loading/unloading,” noting:

“Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it … a vehicle engaged in loading or unloading is not ‘parked’ in the ordinary sense of the term.”

Additionally, the signage does not specify that the 20-minute limit applies to the entire time on the land, not just "loading and unloading" or "parked". Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, contract terms must be fair, transparent, and unambiguous. If the signage was intended to enforce a time limit for the total duration on the land (including time driving along the road), this should have been clearly stated.

Here is some suggested wording for the IAS appeal that you may want to consider, for what it's worth:

Quote
Appeal to IAS: Denial of Contractual Liability

I, as the registered keeper, deny any contractual liability for the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued by UK Parking Patrol Office. The signage terms are contradictory and ambiguous, rendering compliance impossible. My appeal is based on the following points:

1. Contradictory and Legally Impossible Signage Terms

The signage states, “Parking is only allowed whilst loading and unloading.” This creates an impossible condition, as “loading/unloading” is not synonymous with “parking.” In Jopson v Homeguard (2016) B9GF0A9E, HHJ Harris QC distinguished “parking” from “loading/unloading,” noting:

“Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it … a vehicle engaged in loading or unloading is not ‘parked’ in the ordinary sense of the term.”

The signage demands that the vehicle be both “parked” and engaged in “loading/unloading,” which is inherently contradictory. Since the driver was engaged solely in unloading goods as part of official duties, the vehicle was not “parked” and therefore cannot have breached any terms regarding a parking duration.

2. ANPR Limitations and Inaccurate Time Representation

The PCN is based on ANPR-captured entry and exit times, which inaccurately represent the actual unloading period. These times reflect entry and exit from the road, not the duration during which the vehicle was stationary and actively unloading. The signage does not specify that the 20-minute limit applies to the entire time on the land, nor does it clarify that ANPR timings would be used in this way.

3. Breach of Consumer Rights Act 2015 – Requirement for Clear and Transparent Terms

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, contract terms must be fair, transparent, and unambiguous. If the signage was intended to enforce a time limit for the total duration on the land (including time driving along the road), this should have been clearly stated. The current wording misleads drivers into understanding that the 20-minute limit applies to time spent actively loading or unloading.

This ambiguity is fundamentally unfair, as it creates confusion and imposes an unreasonable penalty on drivers who act in accordance with the apparent purpose of the signage. Without explicit clarification, the terms are legally invalid under the CRA.

4. Denial of Contractual Liability

For these reasons, I deny any contractual liability. The vehicle was not “parked” and was present only to unload goods, as allowed by the signage. The ambiguous terms on the signage make it impossible to determine that any contract was breached.

Conclusion

Due to the contradictory and unclear terms on the signage, the flawed use of ANPR to determine unloading duration, and the CRA requirement for clear and transparent terms, I request that the IAS cancel this PCN. The driver’s actions complied with the signage's intended purpose, and no enforceable breach of contract occurred.

Re: UK Parking Patrol Office PCN - unloading overstay - Wembely private road
« Reply #3 on: »
It is the operator response to your IAS appeal. It doesn't rebut the argument that the signs don't mention that the 20 minute maximum is on the site. They only refer to actual loading/unloading.

Quote
The appellant confirms they were in the area at the time of the contravention, however they are permitted to remain within the area for a maximum of 20 minutes only.

You could respond to the IAS and point out that the signs do not mention that the 20 minutes refers to"remaining in the 'area'".

Have they rebutted any of the other points I gave you to put in your appeal?

I doubt that the appeal to the IAS will succeed but you never know.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UK Parking Patrol Office PCN - unloading overstay - Wembely private road
« Reply #4 on: »
I doubt that the appeal to the IAS will succeed but you never know.
Indeed - I take the (perhaps philosophical view) that submissions to the IAS, when made, are as much about making clear to the car parking company that you understand your position and can articulate clear arguments, as they are about actually getting your appeal upheld, given the slim chances.