Author Topic: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket  (Read 399 times)

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SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
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Hello,

The driver has been issued this ticket due to a breach of the terms and conditions of parking on private land, at the location noted above (in the link).

Could you please tell me if there are any gorunds for appeal.

Thank you so much, in advance, for any help you can give.


Kind regards

Kevin.

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Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #1 on: »
Is this the station car park?

Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #2 on: »
Easy one to deal with… as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The location is NOT relevant land for the purposes of PoFA 2012 which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the registered keeper. SABA cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, SABA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Laughton Main TfL car park is not 'relevant land'.

If TfL wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under TfL Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because SABA is not the landowner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for SABA’s own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and SABA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. SABA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #3 on: »
You should also report SABA to the DVLA as they have breached section 8.1.1(d) of the PPSCoP which states:

Quote
The parking operator must not serve a notice which in its design and/or language: state the keeper is liable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 where they cannot be held liable.

They have stated in the NtK that they will hold the Keeper liable:

Quote
You are warned that if, after 29 days from the date given, the Parking Charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we may recover any unpaid part of the Parking Charge from you.

A breach of the PPSCoP is a breach of the KADOE contract with the DVLA and they are therefore using your DVLA supplied data unlawfully.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #4 on: »
WARNING... remember there's been an amendment to railway bye-laws which ISTR came into force at the end of November. I note this PCN is before the date of the amendment. But bear it in mind for future advice, and I'm not sure this amendment includes TfL railways.

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/amended-railway-byelaws-from-26122025/
« Last Edit: December 20, 2025, 06:10:09 am by roythebus »
Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.

Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #5 on: »
The PoFA amendment has absolutely NOTHING to do with TfL (or TfL subsidiary) properties. PoFA 3(1)(b) applies:

Quote
3(1) In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than—

(a) a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980);

(b) a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;

(c) any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.

Then look at PoFA 3(2)(c):

Quote
3(2) In sub-paragraph (1)(b)—

“parking place” has the meaning given by section 32(4)(b) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984;
“traffic authority” means each of the following—

(a) the Secretary of State;

(b) the Welsh Ministers;

(c) Transport for London;

(d) the Common Council of the City of London;

(e) the council of a county, county borough, London borough or district;

(f) a parish or community council;

(g) the Council of the Isles of Scilly.

TfL provides/controls the parking place; Saba operates as TfL’s contractor/agent; therefore the site is excluded from “relevant land” under PoFA 3(1)(b). The 2025 railway-byelaws amendment does not touch 3(1)(b), so nothing changes on Boxing Day for TfL-provided/controlled car parks.

Use the above points for a formal complaint to the DVLA and your MP.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2025, 03:59:05 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #6 on: »
Thank you, to everyone that has put replies here. I really appreciate the time spent on this. We'll send the appeal and see how they respond!
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Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #7 on: »
They'll more likely than not reject the appeal, which is why you don't put much effort into the initial one. It is at POPLA that you will use the legal argument broadside on them.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #8 on: »
Just to manage the OP's expectations, from reading voluminous posts here :), he/she should also expect any POPLA appeal to fail.

Stick in there, the advice you receive here is 99.99% bombproof and you won't pay a penny as long as you follow everything you are told to do :)
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Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #9 on: »
I fancy that POPLA might find in the defendants favour on this one because of the parking operators errors.

Also, I've recently noticed a number of cases where the operator pulls out of the POPLA process in certain kinds of case. In particular, where the operator breaks the rules and implies PoFA liability either by specifically mentioning PoFA or by providing a wording which mimics the PoFA mechanism and implies that the keeper can be persued for the charge.

I don't know about others but I'm beginning to suspect that there maybe some kind of unofficial 'back-channel' between POPLA and the parking operators. I suspect that POPLA might warn an operator about a particular case and that allows the operator to withdraw the case before POPLA have to issue a formal response. 

Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #10 on: »
With such a clear cut case as explained, this is likely to be successful at POPLA. If not, it is just more evidence that POPLA is not fit for purpose.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #11 on: »
Hello, I tried to make an appeal a couple of days ago and the paymyparkingcharge.com site only had a drop down menu for 'yes' or 'no', to who was the driver. No other option. So, I left it and was going to ask you what to do and when I have just gone on again, it has the following page now.



What should I do now as their does not seem to be an option to appeal on this page?

Thank you, in advance, for your help.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2025, 12:33:05 pm by DWMB2 »

Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #12 on: »
Your image doesn't appear to have uploaded properly.

Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #13 on: »
Sorry! It looks fine in the website where its uploaded. I'll add the link again.

Thanks

https://postimg.cc/300Gmftv

Re: SABA Parking Charge Re: Failure to Obtain a Valid Ticket
« Reply #14 on: »
What should I do now as their does not seem to be an option to appeal on this page?


Wait for the debt collectors letters to start coming in followed by a possible letter of claim. You've missed the appeal window, your only other option is to contact SABA and ask them to consider a late appeal. Assuming they will even consider a late appeal you will need a decent reason for not having appealed in the time frame allowed.