Author Topic: PCN - unauthorised parking  (Read 386 times)

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PCN - unauthorised parking
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Got a funny one I think I should be appealing on behalf of a family member.

The only thing stated on the letter is "unauthorised parking" - so to try and figure out what they mean I would have to visit the store and look at the boards displayed at the car park.

Can anyone guess what it is they might be referring to or recommend a best course of action.

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Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #1 on: »
I don’t have a clue what this means, but the notice does not comply with the legislation (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4) which is required to transfer liability from the unknown driver to the registered keeper.
Specifically, but not limited to
Quote
9(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2)The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;
So make sure that any contact is made as the registered keeper and the driver is not identified.

Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #2 on: »
I would rather appeal using the process first than get into a debate on whether or not their paperwork is compliant as the second route is often long and complicated.

When you look up their evidence on the system you can see they have circled a member of my family walking about in the carpark. 

I am still guessing here but I am wondering if "unauthorised parking" means they think the carpark was used to go to another shop or somewhere else other than Wing Yip where the car park is situated. One of them went into the supermarket and the other was roaming about waiting for the shop to be completed.

But it's still a bit of a mystery as "unauthorised parking" says nothing to me.

Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #3 on: »
Can you show us the back of the PPN?

A photo of the signage would help.

Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #4 on: »
I would rather appeal using the process first than get into a debate on whether or not their paperwork is compliant as the second route is often long and complicated.

When you look up their evidence on the system you can see they have circled a member of my family walking about in the carpark. 

I am still guessing here but I am wondering if "unauthorised parking" means they think the carpark was used to go to another shop or somewhere else other than Wing Yip where the car park is situated. One of them went into the supermarket and the other was roaming about waiting for the shop to be completed.

But it's still a bit of a mystery as "unauthorised parking" says nothing to me.

It's a fly trap site.

They will probably try and make the driver responsible for the actions of the passengers using T&Cs along the lines of, "Parking only permitted for customers using Wing Yip" or similar wording.

Certain sites with 'good turnover' are monitored by dedicated staff because these sites yield such good profits.

You will defeat them.

I understand your comments regarding 'using the process' but unfortunately this is not the way to beat them.

To win, you have to beat them at their own game. They aren't using normal parking laws here, they are instead using (breach of) contract law.

Their NtK is not PoFA compliant and as such there can never be any keeper liability. They don't know who the driver is and you are under no obligation to tell them.

If you can, show us the back of the notice. There could be further procedural errors on their part.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2025, 11:27:30 am by InterCity125 »

Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #5 on: »
Here's the rear of the form


Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #6 on: »
I would rather appeal using the process first than get into a debate on whether or not their paperwork is compliant as the second route is often long and complicated.

When you look up their evidence on the system you can see they have circled a member of my family walking about in the carpark. 

I am still guessing here but I am wondering if "unauthorised parking" means they think the carpark was used to go to another shop or somewhere else other than Wing Yip where the car park is situated. One of them went into the supermarket and the other was roaming about waiting for the shop to be completed.

But it's still a bit of a mystery as "unauthorised parking" says nothing to me.

I'm sorry, but which planet have you just arrived from? No initial appeal, no matter how well formed and logical, will ever be accepted by any unregulated private parking firm. Also, because you are dealing with the bottom-swelling end of the private parking firm spectrum,  the odds of a secondary appeal to the kangaroo court that is the IAS is extremely unlikely to be successful either.

You have come here for advice and your first reaction is to suggest that the advice you have received to this point is not correct. You either follow the advice exactly as provided here and you will never pay a penny to UKPS, even is it means that the only route is prolonged although not intensive or you FUBAR it and deal with the consequences.

This location is a very well known money spinner for UKPS. They make a fortune from the majority of the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree who are easily intimidated into paying out of ignorance and fear. However, from mine and others experience on here, they are easily defeated once they take the process to a county court claim and with our advice, defend it and then it is eventually struck out or discontinued.

However, feel free to try your own way and waste all the time and effort to achieve the exact same ending. I will bet you £100 right now that you will not get this cancelled at any appeal stage. It will only be ended after they go through the intimidation process of making a county court claim and eventually give in just before they have to pay the £27 trial fee, about 4 weeks before the hearing is scheduled at the defendants local county court which would be in around 9-12+ months from now.

This is all about contract law and nothing else. Unless you know how to argue "unauthorised" parking and can evidence the signage that fails to offer any contract with the driver, then good luck and please let us know how you get on.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #7 on: »
I'm a veteran appellant, not my first rodeo.  Not had to pay any PCNs of my own, bus lane fine, etc in 25 years. Won in court over a speeding charge as well.

I'm not appealing my own PCN here so that adds a new dimension in the sense that elderly residents can't cope with the stress of receiving reams of debt recovery letters through the door.  On a previous occasion when that business started they gave up and paid £125 or something just to make it go away. 

It is nice to know what you all think about this situation and I'm glad to hear your opinions on how it can be dealt with. 

I have tried the "compliant paperwork" defence before and it didn't work, had to try something else.

So what we'll probably do is submit an honest appeal and if that doesn't work we'll pay the fine.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2025, 07:25:03 pm by john1234567 »

Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #8 on: »
If the recipient of the parking charge notice (worth noting is is not a "fine", despite feeling much like one) is simply going to pay up when their appeal is rejected, there's not much further advice we can offer, other than:

  • Make sure the appeal is made before the discount period expires. This period doesn't matter if they're going to fight the matter, but if they're just going to pay, you might as well avoid them losing even more money
  • Spend the intervening time trying your best to convince the supermarket to intervene

Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #9 on: »
Then you have a duty to try and explain to the bewildered recipient of the speculative invoice from a known scammer, that there should be no "stress" in simply receiving "reams" (an exaggeration) of useless debt recovery letters from powerless third party debt collectors. You simply explain that a debt collector is not a party to any contract allegedly breached by the driver. A debt collector has zero standing to do anything. Their only power is to try and intimidate the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of ignorance and fear.

If the recipient has any cognitive function left, they should understand that simply giving in and paying a speculative invoice because it has a fantastic, one time offer of a 40% discount, is not a reason to just pay it. "Just paying it" makes them part of the problem, not the solution. Funding a scam, even if "just to make it go away" marks them as mugs, ripe for further scamming.

Please ask what is it about a useless and powerless debt recovery letter that "scares" them so much that they are prepared to fund a scammer? If it is simply ignorance and fear of the process because it is unfamiliar to them, then you can give them the following information which is probably the main reason that the majority of victims of these scams end up just paying:

Quote
These unregulated private parking firms and their pet debt collectors thrive on one thing: the public’s ignorance of how County Court claims and CCJs actually work. They know that if they can make you believe that “a claim” or a “debt recovery” letter somehow wrecks your credit rating, you will panic and pay them. The gullible tree is full of low-hanging fruit, and they make a very good living shaking it.

Here is the reality, which you should read and take a “life lesson” from...

A Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from a private firm is not a fine. It is just a speculative invoice for an alleged breach of contract by the driver. At that stage, nothing touches your credit file.

If you are not successful in appealing the PCN – and appeals are almost never successful at the initial stage and rarely at the secondary, supposedly “independent” (but not) appeal – most low-hanging fruit do not understand that those decisions are not binding on them and they should never just pay. Many do, however, because they are ignorant of the process and fearful of imaginary consequences.

If you then get “debt recovery” letters from so-called debt collectors, those are just more speculative invoices dressed up in scary language designed to prey on your ignorance and fear. Debt collectors have no legal powers whatsoever to come to your door, take goods, or report anything to credit reference agencies. You could receive fifty of those letters and your credit rating would be unchanged.

As part of the modus operandi of these unregulated firms, the next formal step is usually a Letter of Claim (LoC). That is just a threat that they may start a County Court claim. Even then, your credit record is still untouched. It is simply a threat of legal action, not the result of it. Just more attempts to intimidate the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of ignorance and fear.

Only if they go ahead and issue a County Court claim do you enter the court (judicial) process. A Claim Form comes from the court, not from a useless and powerless debt collector. Getting a claim issued against you does not, by itself, affect your credit rating. A claim is simply an allegation that you owe money. You have the right to defend it. As long as you read your post, acknowledge the claim in time, and either defend it or settle it, your credit file remains untouched.

A County Court Judgment (CCJ) only arises if the court actually makes a judgment against you. That happens either because you defended and were unsuccessful at a hearing, or because you ignored the claim and the parking firm got judgment in default. Even then, you still have a crucial safety net that the low-hanging fruit do not realise exists. If you pay the full judgment sum within 30 days of the date of judgment, the CCJ is not registered on your credit file. It is expunged completely from the record. It is as if it never happened as far as lenders are concerned.

A CCJ only appears on your credit record if you fail to pay within that 30-day window. That is the point at which it gets recorded and can affect your ability to obtain credit. Up to that point, no amount of tickets, no stack of debt recovery letters, no Letter of/Before Claim, and not even the issuing of a County Court claim has any impact on your credit history.

Bailiffs are a separate step again. They cannot simply be sent because you have ignored an unregulated private parking invoice or a useless debt recovery letter. Bailiffs (enforcement agents) only become relevant after there is a CCJ and it has not been paid.

For most smaller PCN CCJs, it is not even worth the creditor’s time and cost to instruct bailiffs, especially when the amount is under £600 and stuck in the slower County Court enforcement system. But the key point is this: no unpaid CCJ, no lawful bailiff.

So when people say things like “I had a debt recovery letter so I might not get a mortgage now” or “if I defend, I will get a CCJ,” they are simply wrong. It is precisely that ignorance and fear that these firms trade on. They rely on ordinary motorists incorrectly assuming that a red-letter demand automatically means ruined credit and bailiffs at the door.

There is nothing in the advice given here that will affect your credit record. On the contrary, proper advice is what keeps you away from CCJs. If you engage with the process, defend where appropriate, and, in the extremely rare instance where you are unsuccessful defending a claim, pay any judgment within 30 days, your credit file will remain completely unaffected and no bailiff will lawfully darken your doorstep over a private parking charge.

These companies rely on being able to intimidate the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of ignorance and fear.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2025, 09:14:57 am by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #10 on: »
Well thanks for all the warnings.  Even if I'm not going down the incorrect paperwork route it is nice to know these options exist.  If it were my own PCN I could ignore the debt collection letters but as it isn't for me I have to be a bit more sensitive about it.

I once appealed by corresponding with the company using a hand written side of A4 and that worked.  They couldn't be bothered with someone who was going to send hand written letters in the post.

Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #11 on: »
A reluctant retraction.  They say they're standing by their guidelines and that he's a very naughty boy but they're going to let him off.

Winner Winner x 1 View List

Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #12 on: »
Who'd have thought it, UKPS do employ human beings after all  ;D

Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #13 on: »
We've still no idea what 'unauthorised parking' means.  :o

Re: PCN - unauthorised parking
« Reply #14 on: »
The universe will forever contain much mystery.