Author Topic: PCN from Britannia Parking | Failed to make valid payment | Flamborough North Landing Overflow Carpark  (Read 5383 times)

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What two option? CAB are totally useless when it comes to dealing parking charges from unregulated private parking companies. As for paying? There is no obligation whatsoever. A POPLA decision has absolutely no bearing on any future action. The POPLA decision is not binding on you.

The signage comparison I showed you earlier in the thread, did you put something similar together  for the appeal?



Did you attempt to contact the landowner, Flamborough Holidays Ltd to try and get the PCN cancelled? When you submitted your POPLA appeal, did you use the text box on their web form or did you upload it as a PDF file, fully formatted?

Anyway, so POPLA appeal was unsuccessful. The actual choices you now have depend on how badly aggrieved you feel. You can opt to pay it or continue to fight it.

If you want to continue to fight it, you have to be prepared for the possibility that it will be decided in the ultimate dispute resolution service, the small claims track in the county court. Only a judge can decide whether you owe Britannia a deb or not.

Just because a POPLA assessor cannot see the legal points, does not mean that a judge won't. The point is whether a valid contract existed between the driver and Britannia and if it was a valid contract, can the liability for that contract be transferred to the Keeper?

Is the landowner contract valid? We don't know because so much of it is redacted. We don't know what authority the people who signed it have as we don't know who they are and their positions within each company.

There is much more that can be argued and it wouldn't be decided by some anonymous "assessor" with very limited (if any) legal training that is funded by the very company they are supposed to be independent of. A judge is completely impartial.

Britannia and their ilk hope that you are low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and will now capitulate because you are not aware of your options and rights. We know what your rights and options are.

If you decide to give up and pay, that's OK. It's your choice. If you feel the PCN was issued unfairly, then you fight. However, you should know what to expect and the likely cost if ultimately you are unsuccessful.

If you decide to fight, then you are going to receive a load of debt collector letters with charge inflated with a fake £70 fee. Debt collectors are to be ignored. They are not a party to the contract that the driver allegedly breached. They operate on a no-win, no-fee basis and are meant to try and scare you into paying. They can be safely ignored and they have absolutely no power to do anything.

Eventually, Britannia may decide to either give up or issue a claim in the county court. Even if they issue a claim, that does not mean that they will follow it though all the way to a hearing. They, like the debt collectors hope that once they have initiated litigation, you will capitulate and pay up.

If a claim is filed it will be for the £100 charge, £70 fake added damages, bit of interest at 8%/annum, £50 fixed legal fees  and £35 court fee. So around £255. A lot of people baulk at this point out of fear of the idea that it may go to court and end up paying this amount. That is just about the stupidest move anyone can make because if it went to a hearing, even if they lost, most judges would not allow the fake added £70 not the interest. However, that is a worst case scenario.

If you were successful, you don't owe them a penny and you can claim up to £95 costs. Of course, as I mentioned, it may never get as far as a hearing. In many cases, they eventually discontinue once they realise that you are not the low-hanging fruit they thought they could pick and move on to other ripe pickings.

So, you have to decide what you want to do. Please don't even think about the CAB. They really are clueless when it comes to unregulated private parking companies.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Hi b789,

Thank you so so much for your insightful reply as always. Yes, I followed your advice to a T but the &*#@^!*# POPLA still rejected it.

May I know how did you find out that Flamborough Holidays Ltd owns the carpark? I consider myself somewhat am internet sleuth but I was unable to trace the carpark's owner! It seems like the company is a dormant company though.

I'll try to look for Flamborough Holidays Ltd's contact anyway. I'm not keen to give up at this stage but I'm not looking forward to the barrage of debtor's letters, "fake" they may be!!

It's on the copy of the contract they sent you.

A "dormant" company is one that has had no significant accounting transactions during a financial year, as defined by HMRC and Companies House. This status primarily impacts the company's financial reporting and tax obligations, not necessarily its legal capacity to enter into contracts.

A dormant company can remain registered and retain its legal status as a separate entity, which means it is still capable of entering into contracts. However, whether a contract entered into by a dormant company is valid depends on various factors:

  • Authority to Contract: If the dormant company has properly authorised the contract through its directors or officers, the contract can still be valid. Dormancy does not remove a company’s ability to engage in lawful activities, provided they are limited and consistent with the company's dormant status (i.e., non-trading).

  • Breach of Dormancy Conditions: If the contract with the PPC involves trading activities or significant financial transactions that breach the company’s dormant status, this could lead to penalties from HMRC or Companies House. However, the contract itself may still be legally binding.

  • Enforceability: Even if the company is dormant, the other party, Britannia, may still enforce the contract if it was lawfully entered into. The company’s dormant status does not automatically invalidate contracts unless there was fraud, misrepresentation, or another legal issue when entering into the contract.
If Britannia is relying on a contract with a dormant company, it may be worth examining whether the company was properly authorised to enter the agreement and whether the contract breaches its dormant status requirements. If so, this might affect Britannia's ability to rely on the contract, though it may not necessarily invalidate it outright.

Happy sleuthing.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Hi b789,

I'm close to paying the fine because I've read that the PCN may increase and I might end up having to pay hundreds, if not thousands more, if I do end up in court. The thing is, the Driver was indeed late by 20 minutes to the car, not sure if the Judge will rule in our favour, unless as the Keeper I can say the fine is disproportionate to the misdeed since the Driver did actually pay.... but was late to the car due to external circumstances and having to walk up a long flight of stairs with a 2 year old to the carpark.

It's your money and therefore your choice but, for a single ticket, I can see no good reason you would end up paying thousands.

If they file a claim it will be for the original £100, legal fees of £50, a hearing fee of £35, and interest at 8% per annum. They will also seek to add on £70 of debt collector fees but these can usually be successfully challenged.

Hi b789,

I'm close to paying the fine because I've read that the PCN may increase and I might end up having to pay hundreds, if not thousands more, if I do end up in court. The thing is, the Driver was indeed late by 20 minutes to the car, not sure if the Judge will rule in our favour, unless as the Keeper I can say the fine is disproportionate to the misdeed since the Driver did actually pay.... but was late to the car due to external circumstances and having to walk up a long flight of stairs with a 2 year old to the carpark.

As pointed out, it is your money. However, where on earth do you get the notion that it is a 'fine" of any sort? After everything that has been discussed above, nowhere has there been any mention of the speculative invoice being a fine. You assume that Britannia Parking are some sort of 'authority' that has statutory powers when, in fact, they are simply an unregulated private company.

Also, the misconception that it could escalate into the "thousands" is exactly what they want the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to think. Just because a POPLA assessor did not agree with your appeal has absolutely no bearing on any outcome, even if it went all the way to a county court small claims track hearing. The most that would be at risk, should it ever get to hearing and you were unsuccessful is around £200. The whole point of the small-claims track is that costs are fixed.

Where you got the idea that it could run into "thousands" is baffling. Whilst they will attempt to increase the amount owed by an added, fake £70 in the next stage, that added amount would not be allowed by the court. It is added by these unregulated companies because they hope that you will fail to respond correctly to a claim and they will get a judgment by default.

IF you are prepared to fight this, I expect that they will follow the well trodden path of sending debt collector letters which demand £170. Once those letters have been ignored (never, ever, ever respond to a third party debt collector) they will instruct a bulk litigation firm of solicitors, DCB Legal, to issue a Letter of Claim (LoC) giving you 30 days to pay (as opposed to the harmless DRA letters which only give you 14 days to pay) otherwise they will issue a claim.

Once claim is issued, a defence is submitted and once they realise that you intend to defend the claim, they will discontinue before any hearing fee has to be paid.

So, there is no risk of "thousands" if, the worst case scenario, you were to be unsuccessful even if the claim went all the way to hearing. There is a very valid defence in that the signage at the location is poor and a contract cannot have been formed. However, it is very highly probably that they would never see this through all the way to a hearing and they would discontinue.

You choice, your money. We're here to assist should you decide to fight.

Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Hi everyone,

As expected, I have received a letter from DCBL wanting me to settle 170quid or be taken to court.

I guess the next course of action is to do nothing and wait? Thanks so much!

Link to letter: https://imgur.com/a/cZ4bF3d

Yes, ignore the debt collectors.

DCBL are debt collectors, the similarly named DCB Legal are solicitors. If you get a Letter of Claim from them, come back to us.

Hi everyone,

The court claim has come in! Please find the letter here: https://imgur.com/a/RhHS0UZ

What are my next steps to fight these c**ts?

Thanks so much!

Well trodden path.
See, for example, https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/hounslowpcn-received-from-euro-car-parks/
You will follow the same process, optionally submit an Acknowledgment of Service, submit a defence, submit a Directions Questionnaire, see the case transferred to a court local to you, and see DCB Legal discontinue.
Their tactics are to frighten people into paying with scary words like “court” and “CCJ”.
Before they give in they make increasingly desperate attempts to settle out of court. Never take their calls and block their number.

PS important you need to edit the document you posted to remove the password, primarily, and probably your other personal details as well. Don’t remove any dates, though. I could now log on and cause mischief with the information you have not redacted, although I won’t!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2025, 11:58:02 am by jfollows »

You have redacted the date of the Claim. What is the issue date of the claim?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

You have redacted the date of the Claim. What is the issue date of the claim?

Hi, it's 19 March!

With an issue date of 19th March, you have until 4pm on Monday 7th April to submit your defence. If you submit an Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) before then, you would then have until 4pm on Tuesday 22nd April to submit your defence.

If you want to submit an AoS then follow the instructions in this linked PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

Otherwise, here is the defence and link to the draft order that goes with it. You only need to edit your name and the claim number. You sign the defence by typing your full name for the signature and date it. There is nothing to edit in the draft order.

When you're ready you combine both documents as a single PDF attachment and send as an attachment in an email to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and CC in yourself. The claim number must be in the email subject field and in the body of the email just put: "Please find attached the defence and draft order in the matter of Britannia Parking Group Ltd v [your full name] Claim no.: [claim number]."

Quote
IN THE COUNTY COURT
Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

Britannia Parking Group Ltd

Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]


Defendant



DEFENCE

1. The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety. The Defendant asserts that there is no liability to the Claimant and that no debt is owed. The claim is without merit and does not adequately disclose any comprehensible cause of action.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4.

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16(7.5);

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c) The PoC do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts)

(d) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

(e) The PoC do not state precisely how the sum claimed is calculated, including the basis for any statutory interest, damages, or other charges;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC do not provide clarity on whether the Defendant is sued as the driver or the keeper of the vehicle, as the claimant cannot plead alternative causes of action without specificity.

4. The Defendant attaches to this defence a copy of a draft order approved by a district judge at another court. The court struck out the claim of its own initiative after determining that the Particulars of Claim failed to comply with CPR 16.4. The judge noted that the claimant had failed to:

(i) Set out the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions relied upon;

(ii) Adequately explain the reasons why the defendant was allegedly in breach of contract;

(iii) Provide separate, detailed Particulars of Claim as permitted under CPR PD 7C.5.2(2).

(iv) The court further observed that, given the modest sum claimed, requiring further case management steps would be disproportionate and contrary to the overriding objective. Accordingly, the judge struck out the claim outright rather than permitting an amendment.

5. The Defendant submits that the same reasoning applies in this case and invites the court to adopt a similar approach by striking out the claim for the Claimant’s failure to comply with CPR 16.4.

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:


Date:

Draft Order for the defence
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

With an issue date of 19th March, you have until 4pm on Monday 7th April to submit your defence. If you submit an Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) before then, you would then have until 4pm on Tuesday 22nd April to submit your defence.

If you want to submit an AoS then follow the instructions in this linked PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

Otherwise, here is the defence and link to the draft order that goes with it. You only need to edit your name and the claim number. You sign the defence by typing your full name for the signature and date it. There is nothing to edit in the draft order.

When you're ready you combine both documents as a single PDF attachment and send as an attachment in an email to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and CC in yourself. The claim number must be in the email subject field and in the body of the email just put: "Please find attached the defence and draft order in the matter of Britannia Parking Group Ltd v [your full name] Claim no.: [claim number]."

Quote
IN THE COUNTY COURT
Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

Britannia Parking Group Ltd

Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]


Defendant



DEFENCE

1. The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety. The Defendant asserts that there is no liability to the Claimant and that no debt is owed. The claim is without merit and does not adequately disclose any comprehensible cause of action.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4.

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16(7.5);

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c) The PoC do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts)

(d) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

(e) The PoC do not state precisely how the sum claimed is calculated, including the basis for any statutory interest, damages, or other charges;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC do not provide clarity on whether the Defendant is sued as the driver or the keeper of the vehicle, as the claimant cannot plead alternative causes of action without specificity.

4. The Defendant attaches to this defence a copy of a draft order approved by a district judge at another court. The court struck out the claim of its own initiative after determining that the Particulars of Claim failed to comply with CPR 16.4. The judge noted that the claimant had failed to:

(i) Set out the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions relied upon;

(ii) Adequately explain the reasons why the defendant was allegedly in breach of contract;

(iii) Provide separate, detailed Particulars of Claim as permitted under CPR PD 7C.5.2(2).

(iv) The court further observed that, given the modest sum claimed, requiring further case management steps would be disproportionate and contrary to the overriding objective. Accordingly, the judge struck out the claim outright rather than permitting an amendment.

5. The Defendant submits that the same reasoning applies in this case and invites the court to adopt a similar approach by striking out the claim for the Claimant’s failure to comply with CPR 16.4.

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:


Date:

Draft Order for the defence

Thank you!!

Hi,

Silly question, but for the PDF, does the defence come first?