Author Topic: PCN for stall at roundabout at Bristol Airport, CCTV stills show 23 secs  (Read 992 times)

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After the initial PVN from VCS I stupidly diclosed the name of the driver before reading any forums or advice!

I had pre-booked Meet & Greet parking. Upon arrival, I was momentarily unsure of the correct route due to the presence of multiple car parks—Drop & Go, Short Stay & Pick Up, and the Waiting Zone—as shown in the Bristol Airport arrival guide. This, showing multiple car parks of similar short duration, combined with significant ongoing construction works at the site, added to the confusion.

While navigating the roundabout, I accidentally stalled my vehicle due to being in the wrong gear. I paused briefly—approximately 21 seconds—to regain my bearings and determine the correct exit. Your timestamped images confirm this short duration (from 06:42:51 to 06:43:12). At no point did I exit the vehicle or turn off the engine. Crucially, I did not cause any obstruction, as evidenced by another vehicle passing by during this time.
It is well recognised in various regulatory interpretations that:
“Attending to a vicissitude of small duration is not parking.”
A brief, momentary stop due to confusion or vehicle control issues—especially when navigating unfamiliar terrain—does not constitute parking or an enforceable contravention under such circumstances.
In light of the following:

•   The extremely brief stall of just 23 seconds (evidenced from the cctv stills they forwarded;
•   The absence of obstruction or danger to other road users;
•   The unclear signage and confusing layout, the names of several cat parks referring to a short duration       
        which all were confusingparticularly for first-time users;
•   The contradictory terminology within the PCN (referring to both ‘parking’ and ‘stopping’);
*.      The fact that I had a copy of the Meet and Greet, so was not dropping off or picking up anyone.

I appealed to the Vehicle Control services, they dismissed the appeal, I appealed to Bristol airporty, they referred me back to VCS. I wnet on to appeal to the IAS, They rejected the appeal, saying that they did not look at mitigating circumstances. I recieved several texts, emails and letters from DCBL. I then received a Letter before Claim from ELMS Legal.

Any advice would be gratefully recieved!
« Last Edit: August 30, 2025, 04:45:33 pm by Patmoore »

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Post the LOC - but not much you can do till they issue a claim through the court.

Hi RichardW,

https://imgur.com/a/8jjGBBc

 I presume you mean the Letter before Claim?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2025, 04:58:13 pm by Patmoore »

Respond to the LoC with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon and thus is in complete contravention of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

As a firm of supposed solicitors, one would expect you to be capable of crafting a letter that aligns with paragraphs 3.1(a)–(d), 5.1 and 5.2 of the Protocol, and paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. These provisions do not exist for decoration—they exist to facilitate informed discussion and proportionate resolution. You might wish to reacquaint yourselves with them.

The Civil Procedure Rules 1998, Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols (Part 3), stipulate that prior to proceedings, parties should have exchanged sufficient information to understand each other’s position. Part 6 helpfully clarifies that this includes disclosure of key documents relevant to the issues in dispute.

Your template letter mentions a “contract”, yet fails to provide one. This would appear to undermine the only foundation upon which your client’s claim allegedly rests. It’s difficult to engage in meaningful pre-litigation dialogue when your side declines to furnish the very document it purports to enforce.

I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim that complies with the requirements of para 3.1 (a) of the Pre-Action Protocol, I shall then seek advice and submit a formal response within 30 days, as required by the Protocol. Thus, I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. A copy of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) that confirms any PoFA 2012 liability
2. A copy of the contract (or contracts) you allege exists between your client and the driver, in the form of an actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date, not a generic stock image
3. The exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract(s) which is (are) relied upon that you allege to have been breached
4. The written agreement between your client and the landowner, establishing authority to enforce
5. A breakdown of the charges claimed, identifying whether the principal sum is claimed as consideration or damages, and whether the £70 “debt recovery” fee includes VAT

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Your letter pays lip service to the Protocol but ignores its substance. This undermines the very pre-litigation process it purports to follow.

Yours faithfully,
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN for stall at roundabout at Bristol Airport, CCTV stills show 23 secs
« Reply #4 on: »
FYI, here is a successful defence with costs awarded against VCS for exactly the same allegation:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6635565/bristol-airport-no-stopping-fine-case-success-and-724-cost-dcb-legal/p1
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN for stall at roundabout at Bristol Airport, CCTV stills show 23 secs
« Reply #5 on: »
I have just received an email from Elms Legal. I have also uploaded the email as well as some correspondence whhich they have replied to in this email. I m afraid the upload is in the wrong order!  Thank you for your continued help! https://imgpile.com/p/DJzT3lD

Re: PCN for stall at roundabout at Bristol Airport, CCTV stills show 23 secs
« Reply #6 on: »
Reply to the Elms email with the following:

Quote
Re: Your email of 11 December 2025 – Our Ref: VCS22897672

Dear Sirs

Thank you for your reply. I do not accept your analysis of either the facts or the law and my complaints to the CMA and CILEx Regulation will proceed as stated.

You say you are not providing a service to me and therefore my concerns fall outside your complaints procedure. That is irrelevant to the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Act 2024. You are a business engaging in commercial practices directed at me as a consumer, by sending debt demands and seeking payment. That is precisely what brings you within the scope of the DMCC.

Your client’s entire “no stopping at Bristol Airport” model is legally defective. The signs are purely prohibitive. They say “No stopping” and then threaten a charge. There is no offer of any benefit or facility, no licence to stop at all, and therefore nothing that a motorist can accept by conduct. As you well know, a prohibition cannot be converted into a contract just because your client chooses to attach a price to the forbidden act.

More importantly, the purported term is impossible to perform lawfully. A vehicle must be able to stop when required to do so by traffic conditions, mechanical difficulties or basic road safety. A term that seeks to ban any stopping at all on a live approach road and roundabout, regardless of circumstances, is void. No consumer can be bound by a condition that purports to make them liable for obeying road safety obligations or for an involuntary stall. Alternatively, such a term is plainly unfair under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, because it creates a grossly disproportionate imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations and is contrary to the requirement of good faith.

You have seen from my appeal that this incident was a brief, involuntary stall of around 23 seconds while I was trying to identify the correct route to a pre-booked meet-and-greet car park. There was no obstruction and no abuse of any facility. To suggest that such an unavoidable pause can be treated as a conscious decision to accept a £170 “charge” simply underlines how penal and unreasonable your client’s model is.

Against that background, your own conduct as a regulated litigation firm is particularly troubling. As officers of the court you are expected to advise your client when a proposed claim is hopeless or based on an unenforceable or unfair term. Instead, you have chosen to endorse and press this claim, and to threaten court proceedings on the back of signage that is incapable of forming a lawful contract with any driver in these circumstances. Encouraging litigation in the knowledge that the underlying term is void or unfair is not consistent with your duty to the court or with professional diligence.

Your email makes matters worse. You assert that the 2024 Private Parking Code of Practice “allows” parking firms to add £70 once a charge is overdue, and that Vehicle Control Services Ltd v Percy somehow confirms that these fees are lawful. That is wrong. The current Code and the courts’ approach to double recovery make clear that such additional “debt recovery” uplifts are not generally recoverable even where there is a valid parking contract. Presenting the extra £70 to a consumer as a lawful sum due under a contract, when you know that its recoverability is at best highly doubtful, is a misleading action. Simply declaring that “the £70.00 debt recovery fee is allowed” does not make it true.

You also assert that “how long you stop doesn’t matter legally” and that any stop, for any reason short of a medical emergency, breaks the rules. That is not an accurate statement of the law. Duration, circumstances, necessity and fairness all matter when a court considers whether a term is enforceable and whether a consumer is liable. A business model that treats a brief, unavoidable stall in traffic as a lucrative contractual breach is not one that any responsible litigation firm should be promoting.

Your final paragraph states that there has been “no misrepresentation, omission, or aggressive behaviour” and that using urgency in debt letters is “legal and standard practice”. Repeating that you have done nothing wrong is not an answer to the specific concerns I have raised. Your first letter misstates the law on recoverability of the £70 add-on, presents the entire £170 as an undisputed and enforceable contractual debt despite the obvious issues with the underlying term, and uses urgent and intimidating language to push for payment. Your latest email doubles down on those misstatements instead of correcting them. That will all be placed before the CMA and CILEx Regulation as part of my complaint.

For the avoidance of doubt, my position remains that:

• there is no contractual liability because the “no stopping” term is prohibitive, impossible to perform in all normal traffic circumstances and unfair under the Consumer Rights Act;
• the extra £70 is not lawfully recoverable; and
• your letters and emails together amount to misleading and aggressive commercial practices contrary to the DMCC, compounded by a failure to exercise the professional judgment expected of a regulated litigation firm and officer of the court.

I again require you to cease all debt-recovery activity in this matter and to return the file to your client, Vehicle Control Services Ltd. If VCS genuinely believe they have a viable cause of action, they are free to issue a properly particularised county court claim. If they do so, the defence will focus squarely on the impossibility and unfairness of the “no stopping” term, the absence of any genuine contractual offer or consideration, and the penal nature of the charge, together with your own role in promoting such litigation.

Please confirm in writing whether you will now close your file and take no further action, or whether you intend to continue to act in a debt-collection capacity. Any further misleading or aggressive correspondence from your firm will simply be treated as additional evidence for the regulators and, if necessary, for the court in relation to unreasonable conduct and costs.

Yours faithfully,
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN for stall at roundabout at Bristol Airport, CCTV stills show 23 secs
« Reply #7 on: »
Dear Hero Member,

Thankn you SO much, I really appreciate the help and support. A very tidy and professional response.
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: PCN for stall at roundabout at Bristol Airport, CCTV stills show 23 secs
« Reply #8 on: »
Hi,

I have received the reply from Elms Legal regarding the email I sent them on the 15th December. They seem determined to do the course?

https://imgbox.com/juKdhx1I
https://imgbox.com/KTkoi2O9
https://imgbox.com/ii3rM9yt

Re: PCN for stall at roundabout at Bristol Airport, CCTV stills show 23 secs
« Reply #9 on: »
Respond as follows:

Quote
Dear Ms Grundle

Re: VCS22897672 – Your letter dated 19 December 2025

Thank you for your further letter. I do not accept your analysis of the law or the facts. My complaints to the CMA and CILEx Regulation are proceeding and your latest response will be added to them.

You continue to assert that a binding contract arises from “No stopping” signs and that any stop for any reason other than a “genuine emergency” is a breach. That misunderstands basic contract principles.

A contract requires an offer that confers some permission or benefit which the consumer can accept, together with consideration. “No stopping – £100 charge” is not an offer of any facility at all. It is a prohibition reinforced by a threat of a penalty. There is no licence to stop, no service provided, and no bargain to be accepted. What your client has drafted is at best a bare “you must not stop” rule dressed up as a contract in order to extract a penalty from motorists who inevitably have to stop on a live approach road from time to time.

Moreover, the term your client relies on is impossible and unlawful in its absolute form. A vehicle must be able to stop when compelled by traffic or road conditions, or by mechanical issues. The law requires drivers to drive safely, not to press on through a stall or into the path of an oncoming bus in order to satisfy a private company’s “no stopping” policy. Any term which purports to make a motorist financially liable for complying with road safety obligations, or for an involuntary stall, is void for impossibility and is plainly unfair under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. No fair contract term can require a driver to ignore the Highway Code or basic mechanical reality.

That is exactly what happened here. The vehicle stalled because the wrong gear was selected. I then had to remain stationary briefly because of an approaching bus. That is not a “voluntary stop”, it is a combination of mechanical difficulty and traffic conditions – precisely the situation in which a driver is obliged to remain where they are until it is safe to move off. Your attempt to recast this as some kind of deliberate, chargeable pause only highlights how penal your client’s model is.

Your heavy reliance on county court decisions such as Ward and Crutchley does not assist you. Those are fact-specific, non-binding decisions. In any event, they do not give your client carte blanche to impose contractual liability on every motorist who momentarily stops in a live traffic situation, nor do they override the Consumer Rights Act. A District Judge will decide this case on its own facts and on current law, not on carefully selected quotes from other people’s hearings.

More fundamentally, as a regulated litigation firm you are not entitled to hide behind your client’s business model. You are not mere message-carriers. You owe duties to the court and obligations of professional judgment. You know, or ought to know, that a term which purports to outlaw all stopping on a live airport roundabout, regardless of safety or mechanical necessity, is at serious risk of being held void and/or unfair. You also know, or ought to know, that additional “debt recovery” uplifts are routinely disallowed as unrecoverable double recovery even where a parking contract does exist. Your role should be to advise your client against pursuing hopeless or abusive litigation, not to encourage it.

Instead, you have chosen to adopt and repeat your client’s most extreme positions. You assert, without qualification, that the extra £70 is both lawful and recoverable and that the Private Parking Single Code of Practice “expressly permits” such uplifts. You then go on to tell me that I have been “accurately informed” of the legal position and that there is no misrepresentation or omission. In other words, you seek to bless your client’s position with the authority of a regulated law firm and to use that status to pressurise a consumer into paying a charge which you know is strongly contested and legally doubtful.

That is exactly the kind of conduct which is likely to be viewed as a misleading and aggressive commercial practice under the DMCC. You are presenting a highly contentious and one-sided legal view as if it were objective fact; you are telling me that a plainly penal and arguably impossible term is reasonable and enforceable; and you are doing so in the context of debt demands couched in urgent and insistent language. It is not enough simply to say “we wholly reject your DMCC allegations” and then repeat the same assertions. The Act is concerned with the effect of your communications on consumers, not with your own opinion of your conduct.

I also note that your latest letter accepts that there is a fundamental disagreement as to “the legal basis, enforceability, or fairness of the charge” and concludes that “the appropriate course is for the matter to be determined by the court”. On that at least we can agree. There is no point in further correspondence while you persist in treating an impossible “no stopping” term as a watertight contract and a brief involuntary stall as a lucrative breach.

For the avoidance of doubt, my position remains:

1. No contract was formed because the “no stopping” signage is purely prohibitive and offers no licence or consideration.
2. Even if a contract could somehow be implied, the term relied on is impossible to perform in normal traffic conditions and is unfair under the Consumer Rights Act, and is therefore not binding.
3. The additional £70 “debt recovery fee” is not lawfully recoverable and your repeated assertion that it is due is misleading.
4. Your own correspondence will be relied upon as evidence of misleading and aggressive commercial practices under the DMCC, and of a failure to exercise the professional judgment expected of a regulated litigation firm and officers of the court.

In light of this, I invite you one last time to do what you should have done at the outset: advise your client that their “no stopping” contract at Bristol Airport is fundamentally flawed, that pursuing motorists over brief, unavoidable stops is vexatious, and that any claim based on these facts is at serious risk of being dismissed with an adverse costs order for unreasonable conduct.

If, despite that, your client insists on litigating, they should issue a properly particularised claim. Any such claim will be fully defended and I will place your entire file of correspondence, including your reliance on an impossible and unfair contract term and your insistence that the £70 uplift is recoverable, before the court in support of a costs application for unreasonable behaviour.

If your client does not intend to issue proceedings, then the proper course is for you to close your file and make no further contact. Please confirm, within 14 days, whether you intend to (a) close your file and take no further action, or (b) continue to act in a debt-collection and pre-action capacity. Any further demands or attempts to re-state the same position will simply be treated as additional evidence for the regulators and, if necessary, the court.

Yours sincerely

Patrick Moore
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: PCN for stall at roundabout at Bristol Airport, CCTV stills show 23 secs
« Reply #10 on: »
Hi - I have now just received this from Elms Legal!!!! It looks as if I will be going to court?

https://ibb.co/fGYgF0F0

Re: PCN for stall at roundabout at Bristol Airport, CCTV stills show 23 secs
« Reply #11 on: »
Yes, it's their normal approach.

Nothing to worry about.

They know that a certain percentage of people fold at the thought of going to court.

There's little chance of them winning this and they know it but it won't stop them using the court process as a 'tool' in the game.

Hopefully Calamity Jake will get involved and receive yet another bloody nose.

Re: PCN for stall at roundabout at Bristol Airport, CCTV stills show 23 secs
« Reply #12 on: »
I do fully intend to go to court if neccesary! - Thank you SO much yet again for your back up and reassurance!

Re: PCN for stall at roundabout at Bristol Airport, CCTV stills show 23 secs
« Reply #13 on: »
Let us know when the letter of claim arrives.

Re: PCN for stall at roundabout at Bristol Airport, CCTV stills show 23 secs
« Reply #14 on: »
I most certainly will do!