Author Topic: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)  (Read 2163 times)

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PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
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Hi there,

We have a contract hire where the parking ticket was sent to the owners i.e. Volkswagen. Volkswagen gave the Parking operators our name but they seemed to have sent solely a Final reminder addressed in our name. It doesn't seem like they followed due process by sending an initial PCN.
Please can you help. The final reminder was sent on the 14th December and they have given us 14 days to pay (till the 28th December)
« Last Edit: December 25, 2023, 12:08:42 am by DWMB2 »

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Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #1 on: »
I note you mention 'we' and 'our' - does this refer to a company? If not, then I assume the hirer of the vehicle is one named individual, if so is that you?

We'll need some more information about the parking incident in question (without telling us who was driving).

Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #2 on: »
The individual is my wife
« Last Edit: December 25, 2023, 12:11:28 am by DWMB2 »

Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #3 on: »
My son had a football match and I parked in a big car park that I thought was linked to football parking but apparently belongs to players who use the golf park.

Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #4 on: »
(without telling us who was driving).
You may wish to amend your previous post based on this

Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #5 on: »
OP, Apart from the gaffe pointed out in by DWMB2 in the previous post, you've left full details of the PCN reference number and vehicle registration in the copy of the reminder that you posted.  You should fix these mistakes ASAP.

If I've understood correctly the individual who is the hirer was not the driver and also didn't receive a notice to hirer. On that basis, the hirer should write to the parking company along the following lines.

Dear Sirs

PCN [                ] RE Vehicle number [               ]

I write in response to your purported "final reminder."

I am the hirer of the vehicle but I was not the driver at the time of the alleged parking event. Therefore, you have no legal claim against me as driver.  As you failed to deliver to me a "notice to hirer" that conforms to the requirements for a notice to hirer in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, you have no legal claim against me as hirer.   

I require you therefore, to cease communicating with me concerning this parking charge and to erase my personal information from your database. 

Yours faithfully, 

Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #6 on: »
Hi there,

We have a contract hire where the parking ticket was sent to the owners i.e. Volkswagen. Volkswagen gave the Parking operators our name but they seemed to have sent solely a Final reminder addressed in our name. It doesn't seem like they followed due process by sending an initial PCN.
Please can you help. The final reminder was sent on the 14th December and they have given us 14 days to pay (till the 28th December)

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Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #7 on: »
I've removed the attachment with the vehicle details and reference number showing, and removed the identification of the driver from the reply in question for you.

Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #8 on: »
OP, Apart from the gaffe pointed out in by DWMB2 in the previous post, you've left full details of the PCN reference number and vehicle registration in the copy of the reminder that you posted.  You should fix these mistakes ASAP.

If I've understood correctly the individual who is the hirer was not the driver and also didn't receive a notice to hirer. On that basis, the hirer should write to the parking company along the following lines.

Dear Sirs

PCN [                ] RE Vehicle number [              ]

I write in response to your purported "final reminder."

I am the hirer of the vehicle but I was not the driver at the time of the alleged parking event. Therefore, you have no legal claim against me as driver.  As you failed to deliver to me a "notice to hirer" that conforms to the requirements for a notice to hirer in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, you have no legal claim against me as hirer. 

I require you therefore, to cease communicating with me concerning this parking charge and to erase my personal information from your database. 

Yours faithfully, 


Many Thanks for the template. My wife adjusted and sent it to them. They responded with a Notice to owner in her name (attached). Can they do that (as they hadn't originally followed the process properly)? Please could you advise of next steps. Cheers
« Last Edit: January 07, 2024, 11:08:08 pm by DWMB2 »

Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #9 on: »
They responded with a Notice to owner in her name (attached). Can they do that (as they hadn't originally followed the process properly)?
For clarity, it isn't a Notice to Owner, after all, it is a hired vehicle. They can, insofar as they can mostly do what they like with it being a largely unregulated industry - but importantly, that doesn't mean that your wife is now liable for the charge.

Did they send any additional documents with this new notice (such as a copy of your hire agreement), or is the attached all they sent?

Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #10 on: »
This time you've published your wife's name!  Please delete the uploaded document, redact it properly and re-post.  Your wife can now lodge an appeal within the 28 day deadline and get the charge cancelled:

I appeal as hirer.  I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so.

Your purported notice to hirer is not effective to transfer the driver's liability (if any) to me because you have not complied with the mandatory provisions for notices to hirers set out in Paragraph 14 of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("POFA").

In particular (and without limitation):

[1.   You did not comply with the condition set out in sub-paragraph 14.(2)(a) POFA to include with the PCN a copy of the documents mentioned in POFA paragraph 13(2) and the relevant notice to keeper;]*

2.   You did not specifically reference paragraph 14.(5) POFA in the PCN as required by sub-paragraph 14.(5)(a);

3.   You did not include in the PCN all the information required to be included pursuant to POFA sub-paragraph 14.(5)(b);

4.   You did not include in the PCN the warning required to be included pursuant to POFA sub-paragraph 14.(5)(c);

Any one of the above failures to comply with POFA is alone sufficient to prevent transfer of liability to me as hirer and I therefore requires you to cancel the charge or to issue a POPLA code so that POPLA can order you to cancel it.


* Delete 1 and renumber if the required documents were enclosed for a change (I have never seen a case in which this happened). The other POFA failures are sufficient anyway

Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #11 on: »
This time you've published your wife's name!  Please delete the uploaded document, redact it properly and re-post. 
Have removed for the OP.

Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #12 on: »
This time you've published your wife's name!  Please delete the uploaded document, redact it properly and re-post. 
Have removed for the OP.
This time you've published your wife's name!  Please delete the uploaded document, redact it properly and re-post.  Your wife can now lodge an appeal within the 28 day deadline and get the charge cancelled:

I appeal as hirer.  I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so.

Your purported notice to hirer is not effective to transfer the driver's liability (if any) to me because you have not complied with the mandatory provisions for notices to hirers set out in Paragraph 14 of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("POFA").

In particular (and without limitation):

[1.   You did not comply with the condition set out in sub-paragraph 14.(2)(a) POFA to include with the PCN a copy of the documents mentioned in POFA paragraph 13(2) and the relevant notice to keeper;]*

2.   You did not specifically reference paragraph 14.(5) POFA in the PCN as required by sub-paragraph 14.(5)(a);

3.   You did not include in the PCN all the information required to be included pursuant to POFA sub-paragraph 14.(5)(b);

4.   You did not include in the PCN the warning required to be included pursuant to POFA sub-paragraph 14.(5)(c);

Any one of the above failures to comply with POFA is alone sufficient to prevent transfer of liability to me as hirer and I therefore requires you to cancel the charge or to issue a POPLA code so that POPLA can order you to cancel it.


* Delete 1 and renumber if the required documents were enclosed for a change (I have never seen a case in which this happened). The other POFA failures are sufficient anyway


Many Thanks - Will ensure I'll post when I'm a little less tired.

Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #13 on: »
Thank you all for your help thus far. Wow this company is relentless! They've rejected the appeal-the discounted payment rate expires on 01 February.  Please can you help.

Thanks
« Last Edit: January 28, 2024, 05:25:20 pm by DWMB2 »

Re: PCN for parking in Golf centre (but received late)
« Reply #14 on: »
Enough is enough!  Time for some tough love. If you want any more advice, delete that rejection notice showing your wife’s name, the PCN number and POPLA code and try again …
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