Author Topic: PCN - Excel parking - Parking without displaying a valid ticket  (Read 66 times)

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Divergirl

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Morning

Long story short.

Hoping for some advice. Parked in a privately owned car park and paid within 10 minutes for parking by using RingGo by telephone (don't have app or coins) using number displayed on Parking signage. At the end of the payment process had verbal confirmation that the payment had been accepted and that I could hang up. No physical ticket issued obviously and no other confirmation received on phone.

Have been issued with a PCN from Excel stating 94) Parked without displaying a valid ticket/permit.

Have disputed it and suppled evidence and the case has gone back and for with Excel providing more evidence and case is about to go to arbitration with IAS.

Car has been owned for several years therefore unlikely that I put in wrong car details or location. Have provided evidence of bank statement showing pending payment on bank account on the day of parking date stamped at time of parking, evidence of parking charge debited the following day from bank account, call log of time I called the RingGo number and confirmation I was in the area attending a medical appointment.

Tried to get a receipt from RingGo but they wont supply backdated receipt neither will Excel. In an attempt to prove I had paid I raised a dispute over the transaction through my bank to query what the parking charge was for but Excel haven't responded within the 30 day timescale. Have evidence of this too.

So in summary I parked and paid for parking and complied with all the other terms and conditions displayed on signage but because I paid by phone and do not have a receipt they are progressing with their defence. I don't normally park without paying and genuinely though everything had been paid for as I was told so on the automated telephone payment message before I put the phone down. They maintain I would have been sent a receipt on my phone but I didn't so don't know what went wrong but I can prove I phoned the number at that time and that I have paid the parking charge. 

Have provided all my evidence and the case has gone back and fore a few times with both myself and Excel adding more evidence. I have nothing more I can add in terms of evidence or photographs but before I send it to arbitration anyone else got any other advice?

Anyone got any experience of using the telephone payment system and not being issued with a receipt? I've clearly paid but for some reason I didn't get a text confirming this if this is what I should have received.  It also hasn't registered on their system.

If payment was made within 14 days of the PCN then it would have been a 35 fee, its now 70 as I have taken it to appeal and have lost the right to pay a reduced amount!! Obviously more if I choose to go to court.

When I returned to the car the parking attendant was there taking photos. I showed him the pending transaction on my bank account but he said he had already uploaded the photos on his hand held device so there was nothing he could do he said. He did advise taking screenshots and photos of the area, screenshots etc which I did.

Any advice would be appreciated on the phone payment system as the only things I have found relate to the RingGo app which I didn't have at the time but which I do now have and with this you can see receipts for any parking payments you have made.

Thanks

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The Rookie

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Re: PCN - Excel parking - Parking without displaying a valid ticket
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2024, 11:38:26 am »
The Ringo payment almost certainly goes to the landowner and not Excel so they won't have any evidence of payment either way beyond whether they have information payment was made from the landowners system.

Where was the car park, there are some (like Milton Keynes) where car parks neighbour each other and many get confused as to which signage relates to the car park they parked in and pay for the 'wrong' one.  I don't use Ringo but it seems bizarre you get no form of receipt, you could send them a Subject Access Request.

Without hard evidence the IAS won't uphold your appeal, but that doesn't mean you owe anything.
There are motorists who have been scammed and those who are yet to be scammed!

Divergirl

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Re: PCN - Excel parking - Parking without displaying a valid ticket
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2024, 12:11:46 pm »
Thanks The Rookie.

There are a few car parks in the area managed by Excel but the location number was quite clear on the signage so I would have entered that number and it would have been repeated back to me on the automated telephony system. I don't think I misheard but cant prove anything else about the call.

I have sent proof that I paid for the parking charge from my bank account at that time and proof of the telephone call. I don't have any other proof. I haven't used that before so I wouldn't have waited for a receipt to come through necessarily as I had confirmation that my payment had been accepted and that I could hang up. I've not parked there before as I was visiting for a medical appointment nearby.

Yes I could send a SAR. As part of their evidence Excel have provided a copy of a spreadsheet that has searched on my vehicle number on that date but with no entries found but that proves nothing as I cant check the search criteria myself to see what they put in. 

Interestingly I have been charged 2.60 which apparently incudes a 0.20 RingGo management fee. There is nothing on the signage to indicate the charge for the minimum time of 3 hours would be anything other than the 2.40 quoted on the signage.

Also Excel provided a site plan as part of their defence claiming the site had been audited and was fully compliant. I've revisited the site and half the signage they say should be there isn't any more and there is only one pay machine instead of the 4 they say are there on their site plan. I've provided photographic evidence of this and the signage showing the 2.40 charge not the 2.60 I have been debited.

It just all feels like a scam. Encourage you to park in a "public car park" claim its private property and charge you more for parking than they advertise and then don't give you a receipt to prove what you paid for and then slap a charge on which doubles if you dare to appeal!


b789

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Re: PCN - Excel parking - Parking without displaying a valid ticket
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2024, 12:24:40 pm »
By all means go ahead with your IAS appeal. However, it is regarded as an exercise in futility as you are dealing with an incestuous cartel of ex-clampers and their mendacious, roboclaim solicitors and debt collectors who will, in all probability, reject your secondary appeal.

Not to worry though. Any appeal rejection by Excel or the IAS is not binding and does not affect the most likely way you will see off this scam, which is typical of Excel, if/when it goes to court where a truly independent arbiter, a judge, will decide whether you owe Excel a debt.

It would appear that you have the evidence that you paid for the parking but there appears to be a disconnect between RingGo and Excel. In my opinion, there is no need to SAR Excel at this stage. You should only SAR after you receive an actual claim as it is very likely that the particulars of claim will be so woefully inadequate that you can probably see the claim struck out well before any hearing.

I am not a user of RingGo (or any privately run car parks if I can avoid them) app user. However, send a SAR to dpo@ringgo.co.uk to see what information comes back that can be compared to the evidence you have of the payment. You may have to provide non-photographic evidence of identity, which in your case would be a copy of the front of your V5C car registration document.

Divergirl

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Re: PCN - Excel parking - Parking without displaying a valid ticket
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2024, 12:57:51 pm »
Thank you b789

You have summed up the situation more articulately than I have without swearing!!

Its my view too that there is some sort of disconnect between Excel and RingGo, and my payment went through but for some reason no receipt was sent.

I'm not afraid of going to court, I'm familiar of the system through through my job and cases I take court action against for non payment of invoices, so yes it will be interesting the evidence they produce if they go down this route. I will do as you suggested regarding an SAR on RingGo and keep my powder dry with Excel until I see where they go with this after the appeal.

Many thanks

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H C Andersen

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Re: PCN - Excel parking - Parking without displaying a valid ticket
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2024, 06:23:23 pm »
So in summary I parked and paid for parking and complied with all the other terms and conditions displayed on signage but because I paid by phone and do not have a receipt they are progressing with their defence.

Then how come the PCN, which we haven't seen, refers to the breach thus:

Parked without displaying a valid ticket/permit.

You can't display anything if you pay by phone. Sorry to be pointed, but isn't this basic for someone who often takes claims to court?  Where is their evidence that the one and only means of procuring parking rights is by purchasing these and displaying physical proof as required? Maybe you've made this point, but how would we know?

But we're scrabbling in the dark. No PCN, no correspondence etc. etc.

I suspect that time is neither your nor our friend, so I hope the tone of my comments will be taken as meant: let's get facts on the table ASP.

Divergirl

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Re: PCN - Excel parking - Parking without displaying a valid ticket
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2024, 06:25:06 pm »
I was trying to keep it simple as I have been sent many documents by Excel to try and justify their claim and I have also sent evidence and documentation back with screenshots and pictures and didn't want to bog my post down with all of this as I have been happy to date to deal with what they have challenged me with.

You are correct, you cannot display a ticket if you pay by phone. They claim I would have been sent a receipt, presumably by text but I never received one.

I have therefore gone back and challenged this. I suspect thee has been some sort of technical glitch where payment has been made (and I can prove this) but no receipt has been issued and it hasn't registered on the IT system. Luckily I have proof I have paid and its timestamped.

My point about not being afraid to go to court was merely meant that I know some people are put off doing this and they know this and play on people's fear.

The point of my post was merely to see if anyone has had an issue like this with payment by phone, I couldn't see anything similar when I searched previous posts.