Author Topic: ParkingEye PCN for exceeding free stay period, but not paying for remainder @ Rugby Asda  (Read 3199 times)

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As above. No need to request it. Just add to your POPLA appeal that you put the operator to strict proof that they have a valid contract flowing from the landowner to issue PCNs in their own name.

Here is an example of a section you could use:

Quote
No evidence of landowner authority

The operator is also put to strict proof, by means of contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority flowing from the landholder of the "relevant land" to the operator. It is not accepted that the operator has adhered to the landholder's definitions, exemptions, grace period, hours of operation, etc. and any instructions to cancel charges due to complaints. There is no evidence that the freeholder authorises this operator to issue parking charges or what the land enforcement boundary and start/expiry dates are, nor whether this operator has standing to enforce such charges in their own name rather than a bare licence to act as an agent ‘on behalf of’ the landowner.

The operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice as this operator does not have proprietary interest in the “relevant land” then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner.

The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only). Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules.

A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement. Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, and exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic information such as the land boundary and bays where enforcement applies/does not apply.

Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge and, of course, how much the landowner authorises this agent to charge (which cannot be assumed to be the sum on a sign because template private parking terms and sums have been known not to match the actual landowner agreement). Paragraph 7 of the BPA Code of Practice defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:

7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

(a) the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined

(b) any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation

(c) any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement

(d) who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs

(e) the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement
« Last Edit: August 02, 2024, 01:14:44 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Great, thanks.

Just to confirm, I should just copy/paste what you added in quotes to the end of the rest of the text I mentioned for my appeal?

Yes. For ease of reading, you might want to number your appeal points.

Thanks, I'll add that in, and good idea on the numbering.

Thanks for all the help so far, hopefully this will be the last draft of my appeal then, if you could give it a look over & let me know if you think it's all good, or if anything needs to change?

Quote
There are multiple points to my appeal:

1. The Notice to Keeper (attached copy for reference) does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Specifically, in PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, item 9(2)(e)(i), the NtK must "state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges".
The NtK does not fulfil the requirements of 9(2)(e)(i) as there is no invitation (or synonym thereof) to pay the unpaid parking charges as the registered keeper. There is only the invitation to pay as the driver, or nominate someone else as the driver.

2. The NtK does not comply with the British Parking Association Code of Practice, e.g. items 2.4, 21.2, 21.13, 22.6 & 24.3.

2.1 BPA CoP item 2.4 states that all AOS  member should be aware of their legal obligations, include the PoFA 2012 Schedule 4, which is shown above in point 1 that ParkingEye do not comply with.

2.2 BPA CoP item 21.2 states that as long as the strict conditions of Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 are met, unpaid parking charges can be reclaimed from the keeper, rather than the driver of the vehicle. As shown above in point 1, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 aren't met and therefore there is no right to reclaim the unpaid parking charge from myself, as the registered keeper of the vehicle.

2.3 BPA CoP item 21.13 states "You should see the relevant part of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 to make sure you know: what contents you need to include in the Notice to Keeper (paragraph 8(2) or 9(2))" As shown above in point 1, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 is not met.

2.4 BPA CoP item 22.6 states "If you want to make use of the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 and you have not issued and delivered a parking charge notice to the driver in the car park where the parking event took place, your Notice to Keeper must meet the strict
requirements and timetable set out in the Schedule (in particular paragraph 9)." As shown above in point 1, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 is not met.

2.5 BPA CoP item 24.3 states "Under POFA 2012, you can gain the right to recover unpaid charges from keepers only if particular conditions have been met. Once the conditions are met you may use your right to recover, after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the Notice to Keeper was given. You should read paragraph 4 of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 to understand what these conditions are" As shown above in point 1, Schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 is not met, and therefore there is no right to recover unpaid charges from the myself, as the registered keeper.

As shown above, there are multiple requirements in both the BPA CoP & PoFA 2012 that ParkingEye have not complied with & therefore the NtK is invalid & they have no right to reclaim any unpaid parking charges from myself, as the registered keeper.

3. No evidence of landowner authority
The operator is also put to strict proof, by means of contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority flowing from the landholder of the "relevant land" to the operator. It is not accepted that the operator has adhered to the landholder's definitions, exemptions, grace period, hours of operation, etc. and any instructions to cancel charges due to complaints. There is no evidence that the freeholder authorises this operator to issue parking charges or what the land enforcement boundary and start/expiry dates are, nor whether this operator has standing to enforce such charges in their own name rather than a bare licence to act as an agent ‘on behalf of’ the landowner.

The operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice as this operator does not have proprietary interest in the “relevant land” then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner.

The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details including exemptions - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do and any circumstances where the landowner/firms on site in fact have a right to cancellation of a charge. It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is also authorised to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only). Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules.

A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement. Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, and exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic information such as the land boundary and bays where enforcement applies/does not apply.

Not forgetting evidence of the various restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge and, of course, how much the landowner authorises this agent to charge (which cannot be assumed to be the sum on a sign because template private parking terms and sums have been known not to match the actual landowner agreement). Paragraph 7 of the BPA Code of Practice defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:

7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

(a) the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined

(b) any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation

(c) any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement

(d) who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs

(e) the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement

Send it. Even if POPLA reject the appeal, you can safely ignore it as it has no bearing on any future proceedings.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Cheers, I've submitted my appeal. Will wait & see what comes of it.

Parking Eye have now added their "information & evidence" pack (50 pages). Is it worth me redacting any identifiable info from this & uploading here for you to take a look at, as it says I have 7 days to respond to this if I want to.

I've had a quick skim through & noticed a couple of things:
1. The contract included has the grace period redacted
2. the free stay period mentioned on the contract does not match the car park (contract states 1 hour free, whereas the car park & all other documentation says 2 hours free) (I'm pretty sure it used to be 1 hour free, rather than 2 & has changed in the last few years, so I'm assuming is an outdated contract)

In your response to the operators evidence pack, you must highlight any points you raise in your appeal that they have not rebutted or answered.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Is it worth me redacting any identifiable info from this & uploading here for you to take a look at
If possible. I can't promise I'll be able to comb through the whole thing (I have enough contracts to look through in my day job  ;D ) but we might be able to spot some things you can highlight.

As I said in another ParkingEye case currently at POPLA stage earlier today - As a general rule, your approach to the comments stage of POPLA is to draw attention to any of your appeal points that ParkingEye have failed to address, or any bits of their evidence that are shoddy, undermine their arguments, and/or support yours. If they have failed to address a point you have made, point this out - you can suggest that their lack of rebuttal indicates they accept the point.

Here's the Document provided by parking eye, with (I think!) all my personal details removed/redacted.

TBH I don't think they've really tried to argue any of the points I made in my appeal, and instead is just a standard response of "this is how it is".

I'll have a full read through & draft a response, but if you get a chance, any assistance on points to raise would be great

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/eiog88wpykf656kn0nq21/Parking-Eye-evidedence-redacted.pdf?rlkey=9zcgoafn8iqhdfjzao8a1bz83&st=wgdr0nji&dl=0

My first draft of points to raise:

Rules and Conditions stated on Page 4 specify a 2 hour free stay, with a tariff applying upto a maximum stay of 3 hours, whereas the contract provided on page 10/11 states 1 hour free stay, with a maximum stay of 2 hours, indicating the published T&Cs do not follow the contract ParkingEye has with the land owner. - I assume there's an updated contract, but should I mention this, or does this just make this evidence invalid & means they have no evidence they actually have the authority to issue PCN?

On page 5, it states "You have stated that you do not believe that theParking Charge amount is a pre-estimation of loss, or that it is extravagant,unfair or unreasonable". I have made no such claim in my appeal wording. - Should I state this? Does the fact they mention this change my response at all?

The Contract shown on on page 10/11 has the grace period redacted. This is an integral part of the contract, and therefore a contract with this information redacted should not be accepted.

ParkingEye have made no attempt to rebuttal any of the points made in my appeal, therefore it can be assumed that they have accepted these points & as a result, the Appeal should be upheld & the PCN cancelled.

Not sure there's not much more I can say, as they've not tried to counter any of the points I made, so I can't counter their counter. It definitely seems like a standard evidence pack they pull together, rather than tailoring it to the actual appeal. Happy to have any wording altered, removed completely etc, and especially if I've made a mistake somewhere.

You are correct. Simply list each point they have not answered or rebutted.

Also list each point where you contest their answer such as difference between what the contract says and what the signage Ts & Cs state.

List any statements such as where they say you stated something but you did not do so.

You need to lead the assessor by the nose to each point that they have not countered and also to each point where they have erred or accused you of something that you didn't do or say and is not evidenced.

Make the assessors life easy and do as much of the work for them as you can. They will appreciate it, I'm sure.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

I plan to submit my reponse today, but here's what I plan to say, if you're able to take a quick look through & let me know if there's anything significant I should change/add/remove?

Quote
There are several issues with the “Operator Case Summary” provided, which I will detail below:
1. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 1 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that the NtK does not fulfil the requirements of PoFA Schedule 4, item 9(2)(e)(i) & therefore the NtK is invalid.
2. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP & therefore the PCN is invalid.
3. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.1 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 2.4 & therefore the PCN is invalid.
4. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.2 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 21.2 & therefore the liability of the PCN cannot be passed to myself, as registered keeper.
5. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.3 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 21.13 & therefore the NtK is invalid.
6. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.4 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 22.6 & therefore the liability of the PCN cannot be passed to myself, as registered keeper.
7. ParkingEye have not attempted to counter point 2.5 from my appeal, therefore it can be considered accepted by ParkingEye that they do not comply with the British Parking Association CoP item 24.3 & therefore ParkingEye have no right to recover any unpaid charges from myself, as registered keeper.
8. ParkingEye have made no attempt to rebuttal any of the points made in my appeal, therefore it can be assumed that they have accepted these points & as a result, the Appeal should be upheld & the PCN cancelled.
9. ParkingEye have not provided a contract that meets the requirements in point 3 from my appeal, as the Contract shown on on page 10/11 has the grace period redacted. This is an integral part of the contract, and therefore a contract with this information redacted should not be accepted.
10. The Rules and Conditions stated on Page 4 specify a 2 hour free stay, with a tariff applying upto a maximum stay of 3 hours (which matches the photos of the signage), whereas the contract provided on page 10 &11 states 1 hour free stay, with a maximum stay of 2 hours, indicating the published T&Cs do not follow the contract ParkingEye has with the land owner.
11. On page 5, it states "You have stated that you do not believe that theParking Charge amount is a pre-estimation of loss, or that it is extravagant,unfair or unreasonable". I have made no such claim in my appeal wording.

I have demonstrated multiple reasons why both the NtK & PCN are invalid & therefore my appeal should be upheld & the PCN cancelled.

This being largely unregulated industry, PCNs are generally not 'invalid', as such. Where you say "Therefore the PCN/NTK is invalid" I would change this to "therefore the appeal should be upheld"