Author Topic: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London  (Read 6609 times)

0 Members and 63 Guests are viewing this topic.

Quote
I assume the matter is closed
I wouldn't assume that yet.

If you change address within 6 years of the alleged contravention date, you should send a DRN to the DPO at UKPC. The odds are that UKPC will engage DCB Legal to pursue this as a claim within that period.

The advice still does not change. Ignore everything except an loC or an actual claim. Defended with our advice, you will not be paying a penny to UKPC.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London
« Reply #47 on: »
Unfortunately today I received the LoC letter from DCB Legal. It is dated 10 days ago.

Would you like to see the letter? It seems pretty standard with almost no new information to my eye.

Re: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London
« Reply #48 on: »
Nothing to worry about. Whilst this will result in a claim being issued, you should respond to the LoC with the following info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC yourself:

Quote
Subject: Response to you Letter of Claim Ref: [reference number]

Dear Sirs,

Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon and thus is in complete contravention of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

As a firm of supposed solicitors, one would expect you to be capable of crafting a letter that aligns with paragraphs 3.1(a)–(d), 5.1 and 5.2 of the Protocol, and paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. These provisions do not exist for decoration—they exist to facilitate informed discussion and proportionate resolution. You might wish to reacquaint yourselves with them.

The Civil Procedure Rules 1998, Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols (Part 3), stipulate that prior to proceedings, parties should have exchanged sufficient information to understand each other’s position. Part 6 helpfully clarifies that this includes disclosure of key documents relevant to the issues in dispute.

Your template letter mentions a “contract”, yet fails to provide one. This would appear to undermine the only foundation upon which your client’s claim allegedly rests. It’s difficult to engage in meaningful pre-litigation dialogue when your side declines to furnish the very document it purports to enforce.

I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim that complies with the requirements of para 3.1 (a) of the Pre-Action Protocol, I shall then seek advice and submit a formal response within 30 days, as required by the Protocol. Thus, I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. A copy of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) that confirms any PoFA 2012 liability
2. A copy of the contract (or contracts) you allege exists between your client and the driver, in the form of an actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date, not a generic stock image
3. The exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract(s) which is (are) relied upon that you allege to have been breached
4. The written agreement between your client and the landowner, establishing authority to enforce
5. A breakdown of the charges claimed, identifying whether the principal sum is claimed as consideration or damages, and whether the £70 “debt recovery” fee includes VAT
6. The full name and role of the person with conduct of this matter and their regulatory status/authorisation to conduct litigation

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London
« Reply #49 on: »
Quote
As a firm of supposed solicitors, one would expect you to be capable of crafting a letter that aligns with paragraphs 3.1(a)–(d), 5.1 and 5.2 of the Protocol, and paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. These provisions do not exist for decoration—they exist to facilitate informed discussion and proportionate resolution. You might wish to reacquaint yourselves with them.
I love this  :)

Thanks I'll send this over now and let you know what comes out next
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London
« Reply #50 on: »
I've got a reply/acknowledgement from DCB Legal:

"
Dear .

We write to acknowledge safe receipt of your formal response to our Letter of Claim sent to you in respect of this matter.

Having considered your response, our position in respect of this matter remains as per our Letter of Claim. We note that despite your points of dispute, there is an absence of any evidence in support of the same so that we may consider this with our Client. If you do have evidence which you believe supports your dispute, please furnish us with the same within the 30 days afforded to you.

As it stands, the initial 30 day timeframe under the Pre-Action Protocol remains, and County Court proceedings will be issued following expiry of this 30 day period, without any further reference to you.

We strongly recommend that you contact a member of our dispute resolution team on 0203 838 7038, as a matter of urgency so we may discuss this matter with you and avoid a Claim being issued against you.

If you are at all unsure of your legal position, you may wish to seek independent legal advice.

Kind Regards,
 
Naieeda Haque
Administration Associate
DCB Legal Ltd
"

Should I reply to them, or wait until the claim is issued? Many thanks in advance.

Re: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London
« Reply #51 on: »
You can email back with the following (also CC yourself):

Quote
Subject: Your non-compliant Letter of Claim – PAPDC disclosure still outstanding (Ref: [reference])

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your email dated [date]. It does not remedy the deficiencies identified in your Letter of Claim.

For the avoidance of doubt:

1. Your client has still not complied with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (“PAPDC”) para 3.1(a)–(d) and §§5.1–5.2, nor with Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct (“PD-PAC”) §6(a) and §6(c). You have not provided the key documents necessary for me to understand and respond to the claim.
2. Your suggestion that I should supply “evidence” before you have even disclosed the basics (contract, authority, signage/terms, and the legal basis/quantum) inverts the Protocol. PAPDC/PD-PAC require the prospective claimant to set out and evidence its case first so that meaningful pre-action engagement can occur.

To enable protocol-compliant engagement, please provide within 7 days:
• The Notice to Keeper relied upon (and confirmation of any PoFA 2012 reliance).
• Contemporaneous photographs of the signage at the material time and the exact term(s) allegedly breached.
• The written landowner agreement/chain of authority that proves standing.
• An intelligible breakdown of the sum claimed, stating whether the principal is consideration or damages, and clarifying the status/VAT treatment of any “debt recovery” add-on.
• A copy of any “contract” you contend was formed with the driver/keeper.
• The full name, role and SRA status of the person with conduct of this matter (please confirm that a solicitor is supervising and will be the point of contact).

Telephone discussions are inappropriate; I require the above in writing. Pending receipt, I cannot complete the PAPDC Reply Form substantively. On receipt of a compliant Letter of Claim with the documents above, I will then provide a full response within 30 days as contemplated by PAPDC §5.2.

If you commence proceedings without first complying with PAPDC/PD-PAC, I will apply for an immediate stay and invite the court to impose sanctions per PD-PAC §§13, 15(b)–(c) and 16 (cf. Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch); Daejan Investments v Park West Club [2003] EWHC 2872; Charles Church Developments v Stent Foundations [2007] EWHC 855). I will also seek my costs for unreasonable conduct (see CPR 27.14(2)(g) and related authorities).

Please confirm by return that: (i) you will not issue within 30 days after providing the above documents, and (ii) a named, authorised fee-earner now has conduct.

If the recipient is not conversant with the PAPDC and PD-PAC obligations set out above, please escalate this matter to a suitably qualified and authorised fee-earner without delay.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London
« Reply #52 on: »
You can email back with the following (also CC yourself):


[Name]
[/quote]

Thank you! Replied and will update as soon as I hear back.

Re: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London
« Reply #53 on: »
Hi,

I received the claim letter today. I really appreciate your help to defend it.

Would you like to see the letter and claim form?

Re: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London
« Reply #54 on: »
The claim form yes.

Re: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London
« Reply #55 on: »
Thank you. Wasn't sure if every page was needed but attached them anyway:









Re: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London
« Reply #56 on: »
With an issue date of 19th November, you have until 4pm on Monday 8th December to submit your defence. If you submit an Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) before then, you would then have until 4pm on Monday 22nd December to submit your defence.

You only need to submit an AoS if you need extra time to prepare your defence. If you want to submit an AoS then follow the instructions in this linked PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

Until very recently, we never advised using the MCOL to submit a defence. However, due to recent systemic failures within the CNBC, we feel that it is safer to now submit a short defence using MCOL as it is instantly submitted and entered into the "system". Whilst it will deny the use of some formatting or inclusion of transcripts etc. these can always be included with the Witness Statement (WS) later, if it ever progresses that far.

You will need to copy and paste it into the defence text box on MCOL. It has been checked to make sure that it will fit into the 122 lines limit.

Quote
1. The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety. The Defendant asserts that there is no liability to the Claimant and that no debt is owed. The claim is without merit and does not adequately disclose any comprehensible cause of action.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not adequately comply with CPR 16.4.

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with PD 16, para 7.3(1);

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c) The PoC do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts);

(d) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

(e) The PoC do not state precisely how the sum claimed is calculated, including the basis for any statutory interest, damages, or other charges;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC do not provide clarity on whether the Defendant is sued as the driver or the keeper of the vehicle, as the claimant cannot plead alternative causes of action without specificity.

4. The Defendant submits that courts have previously struck out materially similar claims of their own initiative for failure to adequately comply with CPR 16.4, particularly where the Particulars of Claim failed to specify the contractual terms relied upon or explain the alleged breach with sufficient clarity.

5. In comparable cases involving modest sums, judges have found that requiring further case management steps would be disproportionate and contrary to the overriding objective. Accordingly, strike-out was deemed appropriate. The Defendant submits that the same reasoning applies in this case and invites the court to adopt a similar approach by striking out the claim due to the Claimant’s failure to adequately comply with CPR 16.4, rather than permitting an amendment. The Defendant proposes that the following Order be made:

Draft Order:

Of the Court's own initiative and upon reading the particulars of claim and the defence.

AND the court being of the view that the particulars of claim do not adequately comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a) because: (a) they do not set out the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract which is (or are) relied on; and (b) they do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts that the defendant was in breach of contract.

AND the claimant could have complied with CPR 16.4(1)(a) had it served separate detailed particulars of claim, as it could have done pursuant to PD 7C, para 5.2, but chose not to do so.

AND upon the Court determining, having regard to the overriding objective (CPR 1.1), that it would be disproportionate to direct further pleadings or to allot any further share of the Court’s resources to this claim (for example by ordering further particulars of claim and a further defence, with consequent case management).

ORDER:

1. The claim is struck out.

2. Permission to either party to apply to set aside, vary or stay this order by application on notice, which must be filed at this Court not more than 7 days after service of this order, failing which no such application may be made.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London
« Reply #57 on: »
Thank you very much. I have just submitted the defence and will report the outcome.
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London
« Reply #58 on: »
DCB Legal has emailed the following, from a mailbox named "Bulk Litigation", and attached an N180 Directions Questionnaire in pdf:

Quote
Good Morning

Having reviewed the content of your defence, we write to inform you that our client intends to proceed with the claim.

In due course, the Court will direct both parties to each file a directions questionnaire. In preparation for that, please find attached a copy of the Claimant's, which we confirm has been filed with the Court.

Without Prejudice to the above, in order to assist the Court in achieving its overriding objective, our client may be prepared to settle this case - in the event you wish to discuss settlement, please call us on 0203 434 0433 within 7 days and make immediate reference to this correspondence.

If you have provided an email address within your Defence, we intend to use it for service of documents (usually in PDF format) hereon in pursuant to PD 6A (4.1)(2)(c). Please advise whether there are any limitations to this (for example, the format in which documents are to be sent and the maximum size of attachments that may be received). Unless you advise otherwise, we will assume not.

Should I reply at all?

Re: UKPC - Motorcycle parked outside bay - Bell Green Retail Park, London
« Reply #59 on: »
No. You are waiting for your own N180 Directions Questionnaire. You can check your MCOL history to see when your own N180 has been issued or just wait to receive it in the post. Having received your own N180 (make sure it is not simply a copy of the claimants N180) or been notified on MCOL that yours has been sent, do not use the paper form. Ignore all the other forms that came with it. you can discard those. Download your own N180 DQ here and fill it in on your computer. You sign it by simply typing your full name in the signature box.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/673341e779e9143625613543/N180_1124.pdf

Here are the answers to some of the less obvious questions:

• The name of the court is "Civil National Business Centre".

• To be completed by "Your full name" and you are the "Defendant".

• C1: "YES"

• D1: "NO". Reason: "I wish to question the Claimant about their evidence at a hearing in person and to expose omissions and any misleading or incorrect evidence or assertions.
Given the Claimant is a firm who complete cut & paste parking case paperwork for a living, having this case heard solely on papers would appear to put the Claimant at an unfair advantage, especially as they would no doubt prefer the Defendant not to have the opportunity to expose the issues in the Claimants template submissions or speak as the only true witness to events in question
.."

• F1: Whichever is your nearest county court. Use this to find it: https://www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk/search-option

• F3: "1".

• Sign the form by simply typing your full name for the signature.

When you have completed the form, attach it to a single email addressed to both dq.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and [claimant to their legal representative]and CC in yourself. Make sure that the claim number is in the subject field of the email.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Like Like x 1 View List