Parking ticket on office premises, ticket lost.

• #45 Reply
  Posted by Karl on 23 Jun, 2025 11:52
• This is frustrating! I did visit the IPC site again a few days ago, I think, and saw that PCS was still not showing on the AOS list.
  
  
  It has now been around two weeks since PCS sent the NtK by mail. IPC has now updated its AOS list to show PCS, and DVLA has responded that PCS is indeed permitted to request KADOE information. Is there a particular game plan at this point?
• 
  
• #46 Reply
  Posted by Karl on 23 Jun, 2025 11:54
• Was there not a response to the FoI request already? I thought this was mentioned in the post on 10 June?
• 
  
• #47 Reply
  Posted by b789 on 23 Jun, 2025 13:32
• Still waiting for the FoI response.
  
  You can raise a complaint about the DVLA response with ICA. Whilst this won't help you with your case, it will put the DVLA under the ICA spotlight. TO be honest, I don't have the time to handhold through this process. However, I did advise recently on a thread how to escalate to ICA. Do a search or wait and see iff someone else can assist you.
• 
  
• #48 Reply
  Posted by Karl on 23 Jun, 2025 13:33
• Okay. So in short, the £100 fee will have to be paid, then?
• 
  
• #49 Reply
  Posted by b789 on 23 Jun, 2025 13:38
• You won't be paying a penny if you follow the advice.
 Like x 1  View List
• 
  
• #50 Reply
  Posted by Karl on 23 Jun, 2025 13:43
• Okay.
  
  I must confess to be being a little confused then. I thought you just said that escalating the complaint will not help with my case.
  
  What advice am I following that will result in our not paying a penny?
  
  I worry I might have got multiple lines of advice mixed up.
  
  Up to this point, I believe I have followed all of the guidance so far. Is it now just a case of waiting for the FoI response?
  
  In the meantime, I will search the forum for instructions on the ICA complaint.
• 
  
• #51 Reply
  Posted by b789 on 23 Jun, 2025 15:09
• Without having to trudge back through the whole thread, please tell us the status of the PCN? Have you had a response to the appeal? Did you appeal to the IPC? All the rest about complaining to the DVLA is because they are the ultimate data controller of your data and they are shrugging of their responsibility for that.
  
  You can now make a formal complaint to the ICO since the DVLA has exhausted their complaints process with the following points:
  
  

  • Article 24 breach: the DVLA, as data controller, has no effective oversight over post-disclosure use by its KADOE recipients (e.g. PCS), particularly when those recipients act in breach of their trade body’s code and the trade body (IPC) refuses to engage.
  • Failure of accountability, transparency, and fair processing.
  • Systemic delegation of public responsibility to a private entity (IPC), which neither engages with the public nor enforces its own Code.

  
  As for the PCN, you do nothing until you receive a Letter of Claim (LoC), assuming they even send one.
• 
  
• #52 Reply
  Posted by Karl on 24 Jun, 2025 15:39
• No appeals submitted yet, neither to PCS nor IPC. Thus far, this has not been advised, and my general understanding was that this should be avoided? If that is not correct, then I'm mistaken.
  
  That said, I'm not sure what grounds an appeal would be made on. You might recall when I began this post it was in the context of a lost PCN. There has never really been a claim that the parking charge was not valid, but for the possibility that the company was operating improperly.
  
  The person who received the notice was parked in a bay that PCS asserts they should not have.
  
  What would the appeal claim? Something about the actual parking event, or a claim about non-compliance of the PCN itself?
  
  Brief summary of events up to this point:
  
  1. PCN attached to windscreen - 7 May
  2. PCN lost. This thread started.
  3. PCN found. Questions raised about the status of PCS.
  4. NtK received in mail - 9 June
  5. Enquiries submitted to IPC, BPA and DVLA.
  6. DVLA confirmed status of PCS - 23 June
  7. IPC website observed to have added PCS to AOS list.
  
  Only correspondence sent to IPC thus far was a request to the general inbox with no reference to this case. No correspondence has been sent to PCS as of yet.
  
  
• 
  
• #53 Reply
  Posted by b789 on 24 Jun, 2025 18:06
• OK. You can appeal the PCN, but ONLY as the Keeper. They have no idea who the driver is and there is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking firm.
  
  The PCN is NOT compliant with all the requirements of PoFA to be able to hold the Keeper liable because they have failed to comply with paragraph 9(2)(a) of PoFA. There is no "period of parking" noted on the NtK (or the NtD for that matter).
  
  Appeal with the following:
  
  

  Quote

  I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.
  
  As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. PCS has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.
  
  The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. PCS have no hope should you ever try to litigate this, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

  
  When the rejection comes through, show it to us and we will provide the advice on how to make an IAS appeal (also likely to be unsuccessful).
  
  The one thing that is certain, is that this would never make it all the way to a court hearing because the cannot pursue the Keeper, only the driver and they have no idea who that is.
• 
  
• #54 Reply
  Posted by Karl on 24 Jun, 2025 20:38
• Thank you. I shall do that and report back.
  
  For my own understanding only, why can they not pursue the keeper. In their correspondence (both the initial PCN and the NtK, if I recall correctly) they explicitly claim that they can and will do just that. Is this claim purely erroneous?
• 
  
• #55 Reply
  Posted by b789 on 24 Jun, 2025 22:36
• They have no idea who the driver is unless the Keeper blabs it to them. The driver is unknown (to them). They cannot pursue the known Keeper because their NtK does not fully comply with all the requirements of PoFA 2012.
  
  They can claim as much as they like. You are dealing with a firm of ex-clamper scammers. Just because they say they can pursue the Keeper, does not make it a fact that would stand up in court.
  
  If you really want to understand, then have a read of PoFA 2012 and Sao of this persuasive appellate case that would be referred to if it were ever to get to court (which it won't):
  
  VCS v Edward (2023)
• 
  
• #56 Reply
  Posted by Karl on 29 Jun, 2025 17:45
• The NTK has a section explaining appeals, in which it states that the appeals period was 28 days from the issuance of the NTD, and that since that period has lapsed, there is no longer any recourse to appeal.
  
  This seems to make no sense, since the NTK exists to pursue the Keeper in the event that the driver does nor respond and cannot be identified. How is it valid to issue the Keeper with a charge, which they may well be completely unaware of prior to the receipt of the NTK, and give them no recourse to appeal?
  
  In any case, visiting the website and entering the reference number returns the following:
  
  

  Quote

  Unfortunately you are unable to appeal this charge. At the time that the charge was incurred, a Notice to Driver may have been affixed to the vehicle or sent through the post. This offered the driver the ability to appeal within 28 days from its imposition. You also as the registered keeper or the driver of the vehicle had the right to appeal within the 28 day period from the point of issue of the Notice to Keeper. Since we have received no further correspondence from you, payment is required within 14 days. If you consider there to be exceptional circumstances as to why you should be allowed to appeal outside of this period then you should send your reasons to us, in writing, at 2 Wellington Place, Leeds, West Yorkshire, LS1 4AP.
  

  
  This says that there was (past tense) an opportunity to appeal within 28 days of the point of issue of the NTK. The date on the NTK is 9 June. As such, only 20 days have passed.
  
  Should this be escalated directly to the IAS? Or should an appeal be sent to the mail address above?
• 
  
• #57 Reply
  Posted by b789 on 29 Jun, 2025 19:48
• Good luck with the IAS. You'd be more productive poking yourself in the eye with a sharp stick.
  
  The PPSCoP requires the appeal window to be 28 days from "receipt" of the notice. The notice is deemed "received" two working days after it is issued.
• 
  
• #58 Reply
  Posted by Karl on 29 Jun, 2025 21:31
• Certainly, I am not expecting any appeals to be successful. I just want to be sure that the proper steps are taken so that we can be successful down the line. Do you suggest that submitting the appeals is not necessary, even for the sake of showing at a later stage that all avenues were exhausted? Do you suggest that it is sufficient to just wait until PCS makes contact again?
  
  
  
  As for the PPSCoP requirement for a 28-day appeals window, shouldn't this apply to the NTK separately from the NTD. After all, the word receipt implies a recipient, and it is reasonable to assume that a notice to DRIVER and a notice to KEEPER are notices to two separate recipients (as is relevant to the VCS v Edward case linked above).
• 
  
• #59 Reply
  Posted by b789 on 30 Jun, 2025 07:50
• The NtD allows appeal up to 28 days from the date it is issued. For an NtK issued if there is no response to an NtD, then it is 28 days from "receipt" of the NtK. The NtK cannot be issued earlier than 28 days after the date of the NtD and no later than 5 days after the date of the NtD.
  
  If you are appealing as the Keeper having received the NtK, then you have 28 days from the issue date plus, two working days, in which to submit the appeal. If you're saying that they have refused an appeal within this window, then submit a formal complaint to them. Also submit a formal complaint about the operator to the DVLA also as they are in breach of the PPSCoP and therefore the KADOE contract and are using your data unlawfully, which the DVLA, as the data controller, is responsible.
•