Author Topic: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall  (Read 9448 times)

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Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #30 on: »
It is very good. I have taken the liberty to enhance it slightly and flesh out the 5th section about PoFA:

Quote
POPLA Appeal – Minster Baywatch Parking Charge Notice

Parking Charge Reference: [XXXXXXX] 
Operator: Minster Baywatch 
Alleged Contravention: Exceeding a 14-hour combined stay over a one-week period 
Vehicle Registration: [XXXXXXX] 

Minster Baywatch issued a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) to my vehicle for allegedly breaching a recently introduced “14-hour maximum combined stay over any one-week period” rule at a Meadowhall car park. As the registered keeper, I formally appeal this charge on the following grounds: 

1. Failure to Highlight Material Changes 

Minster Baywatch introduced a new parking restriction—the 14-hour maximum combined stay over a week—without adequately notifying regular visitors. This is a material change to the parking terms, yet the operator has buried it within existing signage in the same small font, colour, and style, making it indistinguishable from prior terms. 

This breaches Section 3.4 of the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP), which requires operators to: 

• Clearly signal material changes at the entrance and throughout the site. 
• Use temporary notices, bold text, bright colours, or other prominent means for at least four months to ensure awareness.
 

Minster Baywatch has failed to implement any of these requirements, making enforcement of this newly introduced rule both unfair and unenforceable. 

Additionally, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA) requires contract terms to be transparent and prominent. Burying a major new restriction in small print violates Schedule 2 of the CRA, rendering the term unenforceable against consumers. 

2. Inadequate Notification of Material Changes 

Minster Baywatch has not provided evidence of when the 14-hour combined stay rule was introduced. Based on available information, this change likely took effect in December 2024. Under PPSCoP Section 3.4, the operator was required to: 

• Place temporary notices at all site entrances for a minimum of four months following the change. 
• Ensure existing customers are made explicitly aware of new restrictions to prevent inadvertent breaches.
 

Meadowhall has multiple multi-storey car parks, accommodating approximately 12,000 vehicles. The sheer scale of the site means that a single temporary notice at one entrance is insufficient

I personally visited the site, capturing dashcam footage which confirms no signage at car park entrances alerts users to any updated terms. Dated screenshots from two separate visits show that motorists can enter the car park without seeing any notification of the rule change. Full video footage is available for review. 

By failing to clearly notify motorists of a material change, Minster Baywatch is non-compliant with the PPSCoP, further undermining the enforceability of this charge. 

3. Unfair and Impractical Contractual Terms 

The 14-hour combined weekly limit is an unfair and impractical contractual term under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA) because: 

• It requires motorists to track cumulative parking durations across multiple visits over seven days, something most visitors do not and cannot reasonably do
• If the vehicle is used by multiple drivers, compliance is practically impossible unless all users meticulously record each visit. 
• Meadowhall is a large shopping and leisure complex, where customers visit for various activities (shopping, cinema, restaurants, and more). Expecting visitors to manually calculate their cumulative parking over a week is unrealistic and disproportionate.
 

This term creates a significant imbalance between motorists and the parking operator, making it unfair under Schedule 2 of the CRA. A term that cannot be reasonably followed by the average consumer is inherently unenforceable

Additionally, expecting customers to track cumulative parking durations over multiple calendar years (e.g., one visit in 2024 and one in 2025) is absurd, further proving that this term is both excessive and unreasonable. 

4. Misapplication of ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 

Minster Baywatch’s rejection of my initial appeal misapplies ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 in an attempt to justify this charge. However, the circumstances are entirely different: 

Beavis concerned a single stay with a clear, prominently displayed overstay limit, whereas this case involves a hidden, cumulative weekly limit that is neither obvious nor practical to track. 
• In Beavis, signage was deemed prominent and unambiguous. Here, the 14-hour rule lacks clear prominence, failing PPSCoP and CRA transparency standards.
 

The Beavis ruling only upheld charges where the terms were clear, fair, and properly communicated. The conditions in this case do not meet that threshold, rendering this charge unenforceable. 

5. Non-Compliance with POFA 2012 – Operator Fails to Establish Keeper Liability 

Minster Baywatch has failed to meet the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA), meaning keeper liability cannot be established. Specifically: 

• The Notice to Keeper (NtK) was issued on 8th January but not received until 22nd January, well beyond the mandatory 14-day timeframe required under POFA Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(5). 
• The NtK was sent via untracked post, meaning there is no guaranteed evidence of when it entered the postal system or that it was delivered in accordance with POFA’s strict timeframe.
 

The PPSCoP Section 8.1.2(e), Note 2 states: 

Quote
Therefore, parking operators must retain a record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g. the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system).
 

Minster Baywatch is now put to strict proof that the NtK was actually entered into the postal system on the date claimed. They must provide: 

• A postal log from their mail processor confirming dispatch. 
• A Royal Mail or mail consolidator statement proving when the notice was posted.
 

A certificate of posting by hybrid mail receipt by the bulk mailing consolidator is not evidence of when the notice was actually entered into the postal system and only shows when the notice was sent to the consolidator.

Without strict proof, presumed delivery timelines under POFA do not apply, and Minster Baywatch cannot establish keeper liability. Since POPLA is bound by POFA compliance, this alone is sufficient to cancel the PCN. 

Conclusion 

This PCN is unenforceable due to Minster Baywatch’s: 

• Failure to highlight a material change in terms. 
• Lack of adequate signage to notify regular users of new restrictions. 
• Unfair and impractical contract terms. 
• Incorrect reliance on ParkingEye v Beavis. 
• Failure to comply with POFA 2012.
 

For these reasons, I respectfully request that POPLA uphold this appeal and instruct Minster Baywatch to cancel the Parking Charge Notice.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #31 on: »
Agreed - it's a very well written appeal.

I wonder if it is worth us throwing in landowner authority into the mix, given the usual Minster Baywatch/Branby Wilson switcheroo?
Away from 29th March - 5th April
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Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #32 on: »
Here it is revised with the landowner contract section:

Quote
POPLA Appeal – Minster Baywatch Parking Charge Notice

Parking Charge Reference: [XXXXXXX] 
Operator: Minster Baywatch 
Alleged Contravention: Exceeding a 14-hour combined stay over a one-week period 
Vehicle Registration: [XXXXXXX] 

Minster Baywatch issued a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) to my vehicle for allegedly breaching a recently introduced “14-hour maximum combined stay over any one-week period” rule at a Meadowhall car park. As the registered keeper, I formally appeal this charge on the following grounds: 

1. Failure to Highlight Material Changes 

Minster Baywatch introduced a new parking restriction—the 14-hour maximum combined stay over a week—without adequately notifying regular visitors. This is a material change to the parking terms, yet the operator has buried it within existing signage in the same small font, colour, and style, making it indistinguishable from prior terms. 

This breaches Section 3.4 of the Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP), which requires operators to: 

• Clearly signal material changes at the entrance and throughout the site. 
• Use temporary notices, bold text, bright colours, or other prominent means for at least four months to ensure awareness.
 

Minster Baywatch has failed to implement any of these requirements, making enforcement of this newly introduced rule both unfair and unenforceable. 

Additionally, the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA) requires contract terms to be transparent and prominent. Burying a major new restriction in small print violates Schedule 2 of the CRA, rendering the term unenforceable against consumers. 

2. Inadequate Notification of Material Changes 

Minster Baywatch has not provided evidence of when the 14-hour combined stay rule was introduced. Based on available information, this change likely took effect in December 2024. Under PPSCoP Section 3.4, the operator was required to: 

• Place temporary notices at all site entrances for a minimum of four months following the change. 
• Ensure existing customers are made explicitly aware of new restrictions to prevent inadvertent breaches.
 

Meadowhall has multiple multi-storey car parks, accommodating approximately 12,000 vehicles. The sheer scale of the site means that a single temporary notice at one entrance is insufficient

I personally visited the site, capturing dashcam footage which confirms no signage at car park entrances alerts users to any updated terms. Dated screenshots from two separate visits show that motorists can enter the car park without seeing any notification of the rule change. Full video footage is available for review. 

By failing to clearly notify motorists of a material change, Minster Baywatch is non-compliant with the PPSCoP, further undermining the enforceability of this charge. 

3. Unfair and Impractical Contractual Terms 

The 14-hour combined weekly limit is an unfair and impractical contractual term under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA) because: 

• It requires motorists to track cumulative parking durations across multiple visits over seven days, something most visitors do not and cannot reasonably do
• If the vehicle is used by multiple drivers, compliance is practically impossible unless all users meticulously record each visit. 
• Meadowhall is a large shopping and leisure complex, where customers visit for various activities (shopping, cinema, restaurants, and more). Expecting visitors to manually calculate their cumulative parking over a week is unrealistic and disproportionate.
 

This term creates a significant imbalance between motorists and the parking operator, making it unfair under Schedule 2 of the CRA. A term that cannot be reasonably followed by the average consumer is inherently unenforceable

Additionally, expecting customers to track cumulative parking durations over multiple calendar years (e.g., one visit in 2024 and one in 2025) is absurd, further proving that this term is both excessive and unreasonable. 

4. No Evidence of Landholder Authority 

Minster Baywatch has not provided evidence that it has landholder authority to issue and enforce parking charges. The operator is put to strict proof, by means of contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority flowing from the landholder to the operator. 

There is no evidence that Minster Baywatch: 

• Has adhered to the landholder’s definitions, exemptions, grace periods, or hours of operation. 
• Has been granted authority to enforce parking charges in its own name, rather than acting as a mere agent. 
• Has the right to override landowner decisions regarding complaints and charge cancellations.
 

Minster Baywatch must provide an unredacted copy of its landholder contract, including any site agreements or manuals defining: 

• Exemptions (e.g., for genuine customers or residents). 
• Boundaries of enforcement and operational start/expiry dates. 
• The landowner’s ability to cancel charges.
 

A witness statement alone is insufficient evidence, as such statements are often pre-signed, generic documents that fail to reference specific site terms. If Minster Baywatch lacks full proprietary rights over the land, then it cannot establish standing to pursue this charge. 

5. Non-Compliance with POFA 2012 – Operator Fails to Establish Keeper Liability

Minster Baywatch has failed to meet the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA), meaning keeper liability cannot be established. Specifically: 

• The Notice to Keeper (NtK) was issued on 8th January but not received until 22nd January, well beyond the mandatory 14-day timeframe required under POFA Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(5). 
• The NtK was sent via untracked post, meaning there is no guaranteed evidence of when it entered the postal system or that it was delivered in accordance with POFA’s strict timeframe.
 

The PPSCoP Section 8.1.2(e), Note 2 states: 

Quote
Therefore, parking operators must retain a record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g. the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system).
 

Minster Baywatch is now put to strict proof that the NtK was actually entered into the postal system on the date claimed. They must provide: 

• A postal log from their mail processor confirming dispatch. 
• A Royal Mail or mail consolidator statement proving when the notice was posted.
 

A certificate of posting by hybrid mail receipt by the bulk mailing consolidator is not evidence of when the notice was actually entered into the postal system and only shows when the notice was sent to the consolidator.

Without strict proof, presumed delivery timelines under POFA do not apply, and Minster Baywatch cannot establish keeper liability. Since POPLA is bound by POFA compliance, this alone is sufficient to cancel the PCN. 

Conclusion 

This PCN is unenforceable due to Minster Baywatch’s: 

• Failure to highlight a material change in terms. 
• Lack of adequate signage to notify regular users of new restrictions. 
• Unfair and impractical contract terms. 
• Lack of landholder authority. 
• Failure to comply with POFA 2012.
 

For these reasons, I respectfully request that POPLA uphold this appeal and instruct Minster Baywatch to cancel the Parking Charge Notice.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #33 on: »
Brilliant, thanks for all your help. I've done some more reading about it and while it's not on the car park terms in the car parks, Meadowhall have repeatedly spoken to the press about it and said they'll remove it for any genuine customers, you just need proof that you were a customer for 14+ hours over the course of the week. Which seems backwards, fine everyone first, cause undue stress, then if they happen to have read online about it, allow them to appeal directly with them. It's almost like they don't want customers!

Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #34 on: »
The driver was the same person on both occasions, and there is CCTV evidence to back this up. I’m not sure whether this CCTV belongs to Minster Baywatch or the landowner but it’s my understanding they would have access to it to confirm the driver is the same person.

Why would you want to give this game away?

Have you seen the evidence?

IMO, your starting point should be the impossibility of performance for any driver and the absurdity of the restriction.

Their premise is that EVERY time a vehicle enters the site the same person must be driving. What utter nonsense. I don't normally like the 'predatory conduct' term because in the main PPCs are doing what they're paid to do. But here I think it's justified. There is NO basis on which to assume - and act on this assumption by requesting keeper info from DVLA and issuing a PCN to the keeper- that every time vehicle A enters the site it must be(not may be, but must be) driven by the same person.

They have to convince POPLA and ultimately a court that this approach is reasonable. Good luck with that.

This deals with the principle. You've gone further by acknowledging that in your case their guess was correct.

Why?

Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #35 on: »
So I’ve had a reply to the POPLA appeal, it’s 80 pages so I’ll attach their response, plus some example photos they’ve included, and the documents they’ve attached. There’s a document signed from Broadgate estates and I’ve no idea who they are in relation to Meadowhall, I assume something to do with landowner authority. If other pages from the 80 page response are required please let me know, but if there’s any suggestion on what comments I can make I’d appreciate the help.

https://imgur.com/a/vbmndqT

Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #36 on: »
Can you host the operators evidence pack somewhere so we can see it all? The extracts you have show are useful, but more of the landowner contract would be worthwhile.

From what you have shown, the original contract was valid only for an expressed period with validity from 1st October 1998 and expressed expiration on 30th September 2021. I do not see anywhere in what you've shown us that there was any automatic renewal. As such, their contract with the landowner expired on 30th September 2021.

The "variation agreement" signed by British Land on behalf of the landowner appears to be an attempt to retrospectively resurrect an expired contract. Since the original contract had an explicit expiry date of 30th September 2021 and did not contain any provision for automatic renewal or continuation, any argument that it continued by implied contract is legally weak.

If a contract has a fixed term and the parties wish to continue it, they must actively renew it or create a new contract before expiry. A contract cannot be revived simply by continued performance unless both parties agree that their conduct amounts to a new contract on identical terms. The courts are unlikely to infer a binding implied contract when the written agreement explicitly set an end date with no renewal provisions.

For an implied contract to exist, there must be mutual intention to continue on the same or new terms. Even if both Minster BayWatch and the landowner continued their arrangement, there is no evidence they agreed to identical terms.

Did they negotiate different terms after September 2021? Were invoices issued and paid under the original contract terms, or were they renegotiated? Was there any written confirmation from either party acknowledging the contract had expired but was continuing informally? Without these, any claim of an implied contract is speculative.

The "Variation Agreement" is even more problematic. The January 2024 variation retroactively attempts to extend the contract long after expiry. If the contract had already expired in 2021, it was legally dead. The variation agreement cannot amend a contract that no longer exists. A variation can only modify an active contract, not revive an expired one.

you can argue that the material changes to the terms and conditions that they conveniently admit to, undermine the claim that the contract simply continued unchanged. The operator may argue that they have been in place since 2018, implying continuity.
However, if the terms and conditions changed significantly within the last 4 months, this suggests a new contract or renegotiation, not a simple continuation of the old contract. A genuine implied contract must have identical terms—if key terms changed, it’s evidence that a new contract was needed.

This all creates doubt about whether Minster BayWatch had landowner authority when issuing the PCN on 4th January 2025. They have confirmed that material changes were introduced and displayed on signs at the car park entrance. If the contract was a straightforward continuation, why were these changes needed? Significant changes suggest a renegotiation or new agreement, rather than an automatic extension of the 2018 contract.

Minster BaWatch needs to provide clear evidence of valid landowner authority for the new terms—not just rely on a flawed extension argument. Without proof of an active, valid contract covering the date of the alleged contravention (4th January 2025), their legal standing is questionable.

Any PCNs issued by Minster BayWatch after 30th September 2021 could be unenforceable if they cannot prove valid landowner authority.

All this and other failures by Minster BayWatch to answer questions raised in your appeal and your rebuttal to their evidence will have to be formulated so that it can be copied and pasted into the POPLA webform response which is limited to 10,000 characters. Leave it with me. If anyone else cares to have a look at what has been provided so far, and can see other failures by the operator, post them here.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #37 on: »
Can you host the operators evidence pack somewhere so we can see it all?
DropBox and Google Drive are both good options.

I too would like to see the full landowner contract. I have some experience in dealing with contract variations in my day job, but these are signed before the conclusion of the original contract, and the original contract usually contains some reference to the fact that it may be amended by a variation at some later stage.

I should have some time later in the weekend to have a more thorough look.
Away from 29th March - 5th April
Posting for the first time? READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide | House Rules

Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice
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Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #38 on: »
https://imgur.com/a/w6QQa9y

Here’s everything relating to the contract they sent, it’s a little low res as I’ve had to screen shot it as I’m away with work so only have phone access

Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #39 on: »
Me again; the amended document increasing the contract period is signed by British land who sold their last shares in Meadowhall last year if that’s any relevance

Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #40 on: »
I`m going to throw this one into the pot for the regulars to comment on.

The "Blackbelt barrister" on his videos on U Tube and one of his videos on parking charges he said that a contract could not be made which included a post office box number as the companies address.  This he said was under the consumer rights act.

The signage shown on this car park gives Minster Baywatch as a post office box address.

However, their address at Companies House is a normal geographical address.

Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #41 on: »
The PO Box argument isn't one that POPLA go for. We've had a discussion about this issue in the past - when I'm back at my computer I'll dig it out.

From memory, one of the regulars on the MSE forum has tried it in court a few times with different judges without success.
Away from 29th March - 5th April
Posting for the first time? READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide | House Rules

Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice

Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #42 on: »
It is all down to how well the point is argued at POPLA and in court. Providing only a PO Box address is not compliant with the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008, and the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013.

This is the legal position:

• Because the signage forms part of the contract, it must comply with the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA 2015) and other consumer laws.

• Contracts must be fair and transparent under CRA 2015. A PO Box address hides the true identity of the business, which makes the contract unfair and unenforceable.

• Businesses must provide a real address, not just a PO Box, under the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013.

• If the parking company is a limited company, they must display their registered office address under the Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008.

If the signage does not meet legal requirements, it invalidates the contract, making any PCNs issued under it unenforceable.

Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #43 on: »
There's no harm in throwing it in by all means, but it is worth noting that pragmatically it's one that hasn't met with much success previously. From memory, Bargepole had argued it ~6 times without success.

It'd be one to include as part of a broader defence led by more compelling points, in my view.
Away from 29th March - 5th April
Posting for the first time? READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide | House Rules

Useful Links (for private parking charges):
Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4 | Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice

Re: Minster Baywatch - overstayed - Meadowhall
« Reply #44 on: »
I mean the main argument is that there’s not enough to indicate a change of the rules, right? There’s several car parks, in my evidence I included proof that some don’t have signs notifying of material changes, so as the driver was a regular customer it’s reasonable to assume they weren’t reasonably made aware, in MB’s evidence they show one sign showing that there’s a change to terms but for a car park of that scale one sign, on some of the entrances, shouldn’t be sufficient. They also state that the customer could leave if they don’t agree with the terms but how could the customer leave if there wasn’t sufficient attempt to let them know that the terms have changed.