Free Traffic Legal Advice

If you can get some photos pf the actual signage at the car [ark, that would assists us determining how valid the Parking Charge Notice is. Looking at the location in GSV with images from May 2024, the signage does not appear to be compliant with the BPA or the new Single Code of Practice (SCoP) not of being able to form a contract with the driver.



Also, the Notice to Keeper (NtK) is not fully compliant with ALL the requirements of PoFA to be able to hold the Keeper liable if the drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company.

The Vicar is being mendacious if he says he cannot help. Initial Parking have been contracted by the Church to manage the car park. Ask the Vicar who is the organ-grinder and who is the monkey in the contractual relationship between the Church and Initial Parking.

If necessary, go over the Vicars head and write to his boss complaining about the unfair invoice for £100 issued by a third party, unregulated parking company and how that is going to affect the churches attendance figures once this gets out on social media.

If you've not got the PCN cancelled by the appeal deadline of 14th January 2025, appeal only as the Keeper (the appeal must be in the Keepers name, even if you are doing all the work) with the following:

It should be easy to defeat... as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Initial Parking has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Initial Parking have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

do I do both things - write to above the Vicar's head and write the quoted text to initial parking

Try the former before the latter - if you're getting close to the appeal deadline and haven't had any luck with the church, then send the appeal.

As noted, photos of the signage would be useful.

Also is it one of those issues that really they cannot force you to pay a fine unless you are preventing someone else having somewhere to park?

No, that's not really relevant here. Initial's accusation is that the driver failed to pay for parking when a tariff was due, not that the driver prevented someone else from parking.

Hello - just received an email (via the keeper of the vehicle - not me) from initial parking - not great as they have not been helpful in any way.
Also due to Christmas and all the things happening - I now only have until tomorrow until I run out of the 14 day window to pay the cheaper £60 charge as opposed to the £100 - they have not given me extra time to cover for my initial appeal. They say if I appeal again via the independent appeals service Popla - which is my only option going forward .... https://www.popla.co.uk/appeal-guide - I have 28 days to see if the appeal is successful but then I will need to pay £100 if I fail.

Is there any chance of succeeding with this or am I best to pay the £60?

 

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b789 and others thanks so much for your helpful advice - your wording sounds so impressive.

I am a bit worried about all this - and you are right - it is what makes people fall for the "Mugs Discount"

With the parking fine being as it was so near Christmas, family circumstances and the distance has made it difficult to go and get photos of the car park.

I also contacted the vicar separately - before contacting the parking company - I wondered if that would then divulge the driver as opposed to the keeper. Also if I contact the Bishop - his superior to say I was there at a church event and mistakenly parked in the wrong part of the car park when attending a church function - do I appeal to his better nature to repeal the fine? I am happy to do the poplar appeal and work/fight up to £100. I am not willing to risk more and take it to court.

OP, let's get some basic facts in play pl before deciding on the keeper's defence.

Google Street View (aerial) shows the church with two car parks, one marked 'St. Mary's Pay and Display'. Going to street view shows the other without any signs.

Conclusion: the church is sitting on assets in a busy tourist town in North Wales and wants to make some money from otherwise underutilised resources.

The driver - whose identity is clearly revealed in earlier posts- attended an event which presumably was held on church property, but you've yet to confirm.

14 Dec. was a Saturday.

The church calendar doesn't show anything for 14th: https://brogwydyr.cymru/calendar/?

The Representative Body of the Church in Wales is a registered charity, regulated by the Charity Commission for England and Wales, responsible for holding property and assets on behalf of the Church in Wales.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_Body_of_the_Church_in_Wales

So I doubt that any complaint to a 'bishop' would have the desired effect. 

OP, you cannot appeal to POPLA, you are not the registered keeper. You can write an appeal for them but not act as if you are them. This distinction needs to be understood by you and them. Any legal proceedings would be against them...

..unless they name the driver.

14 Dec. wasn't that long ago, surely you have an email/flyer or whatever which advertises the event, where it's to be held and housekeeping matters e.g. action in the event of fire and parking etc!

IMO, you need far, far more info to hand before the keeper decides whether they're happy to continue.

I sent an emotive email to the bishop from myself last night (not the keeper). The bishop will know who parked there. I could also add the letter - to here - it is not from a legal perspective.