Author Topic: Hospital car park PCN - child's outpatient appointment  (Read 910 times)

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Re: Hospital car park PCN - child's outpatient appointment
« Reply #15 on: »
The points are entirely valid, but with an identified driver, not necessarily a silver bullet. Making a big noise with PALS is very much worthwhile, and likewise ParkingEye as advised. They may not wish for any poor practice to come under too much scrutiny, so making a fuss may get you put in the "too much hassle" pile by ParkingEye and make them give up. Certainly worth a go.

Re. the point around KADOE data not being issued the same day, this is usually confirmed by DVLA themselves in responses to Subject Access Requests. A recent one I submitted contained the following about releases:

"As these requests were made electronically they would have generated automatic responses, which would have been sent to the company the following working day."

You may wish to send a Subject Access Request to DVLA yourself, so that you have a copy of when ParkingEye requested your details, and similar confirmation that the data would have reached ParkingEye the following working day. You can do so here: Make a subject access request to DVLA

Re: Hospital car park PCN - child's outpatient appointment
« Reply #16 on: »
So just to clarify, would the pcn need to have been issued the day after the event (and not on the event) at the earliest as d789 explained? They were only ever able to issue a notice to the keeper because they sent the pcn via post (so couldn’t be a notice to the driver). Please correct me if I am wrong

Re: Hospital car park PCN - child's outpatient appointment
« Reply #17 on: »
A Parking Charge Notice (PCN) is just a term used to say that a "ticket" has been issued. What is important is how the PCN is issued. It can reissued either as a Notice to Driver (NtD) which is stuck on the windscreen or it can be issued as a postal Notice to Keeper (NtK).

The point is that you received an NtK and subsequently identified yourself, the Keeper, as the driver, when there is no legal obligation to do so. Until you identified as the driver, they had no idea who was driving, only that you are the registered keeper.

The driver is always liable for any charge. However, if the NtK is fully compliant with PoFA, they can shift the liability from the unknown driver to the known Keeper. If the NtK is not fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA, and this one isn't, even if they pretend it is, then they cannot hold the Keeper liable. They are not allowed to presume or infer that the Keeper must also have been the driver.

So, this is why you should never identify the driver if you receive an NtK. The Keeper only needs to refer to the driver in the third person.

As you have identified as the driver, it matters not that you are the Keeper. They will hold you liable for the charge.

When they rejected the appeal, the provided a POPLA code which you can use to appeal to a supposedly "independent" appeals service, but that is not strictly true, as POPLA are funded by the very same companies that are trying to pursue you for the charge in the first place.

The POPLA code is valid for 33 days from the date of the appeal rejection. POPLA will not consider any mitigation. They only assess whether the PCN has been issued correctly. So, if you can persuade the POPLA assessor that the operator has failed to comply with any aspect of the law of the PPSCoP, then the PCN has been issued incorrectly.

In your case, you have to try and persuade the assessor that ParkingEye have issued the NtK incorrectly because an NtK cannot be issued the same day as the parking event. Also, you can appeal other points too, such as poor or missing signage, incorrect wording on the NtK or missing periods pf parking being noted.

In your case, there is no evidence that the vehicle was parked for longer than the minimum consideration period (5 minutes). The driver could simply have parked, gone to seek out a sign with the terms and conditions on it, read those terms and conditions and decided not to accept them and left. No contract could have been formed and this is simply a dispute over a contractual matter.

Whilst it is a weak argument in your case because you have already blabbed about why you were there and for how long, it could still be argued that without evidencing a "period of parking", it cannot be proved that a contract was formed with the driver.

It's a technicality, but a useful one, as long as you don't go throwing away all your cards by giving the operator all the evidence they need to hold you liable.

Have a search of the forum for other POPLA appeals to see how they are laid out and argued.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Hospital car park PCN - child's outpatient appointment
« Reply #18 on: »
Thanks all! I will keep you all updated on the outcome for future learning for others.

Re: Hospital car park PCN - child's outpatient appointment
« Reply #19 on: »
Back to the substance pl.

The Notice to Keeper states:

(your vehicle) 'was observed at 13.34 breaching the terms..'

Their rejection repeats the above.

You say: 'One discrepancy that I also noticed on the ticket is that it stated the event time as 13:34 meanwhile I was no longer at the hospital at that time because I paid for only 1 hour of parking (pay on exit) meaning I would have left at 1pm.'

'Would have' left or had left?

Where is your evidence i.e. your record of payment with parking rights expiring at ..... [ before 13.34]??

Their NTK photos are timed at 12.03, 90 minutes before the alleged breach!

Can we get to grips with this 'discrepancy' please.

Re: Hospital car park PCN - child's outpatient appointment
« Reply #20 on: »
They HC, I was not there at that time (13:34). I arrived at 12 and left just before 1pm which is why I paid £1 for parking. The ticket machine (pay on exit) did not have paper for receipts but I paid by contactless card and the entry is clearly marked on my bank statement for that day in question. If I had stayed until 13:34 as they claim, my fee would have been £2 or so £1 is for stays up to 1 hour. The time is therefore wrong, or falsified at best. What are your thoughts? If I was to tell them to provide me with photographs that have exact time stamps they would not be able to provide this legitimately.

Re: Hospital car park PCN - child's outpatient appointment
« Reply #21 on: »
Hi all, just wanted to give you a quick update: POPLA appeal has been succesful based on the point that the bay markings were not clear enough. Thank you all very much for the guidance and encouragement. You all rock! These Parkingeye b.....rds don't deserve a penny, please keep up the good work.
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Re: Hospital car park PCN - child's outpatient appointment
« Reply #22 on: »
Can you please share the assessor comments?