3. GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
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GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
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I am not the driver but registered keeper. A HGV has parked in a coach only area at MOTO Thurrock. Actually google maps, and dashcam footage show many HGV's parked there (not that it makes it okay). A parking warden (i guess) has taken photos of the vehicle, only the 2 on the letter, no additional photos online either. They are not time stamped, nor does the letter have a time of contravention. Does BPA code of practice not say date and time is to be recorded for a notice, and photographic evidence is to be time stamped? If so is this not grounds for appeal? I actually initially thought it was a scam as I was unable to appeal online, but it seems you have to email the appeal now.

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Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #1 on: »
That NtK is not PoFA compliant and so the known registered keeper (RK) cannot be liable for the unknown (to GroupNexus) driver. Their Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not conform to PoFA paragraph 9(2)(a) as it does not specify a "period of parking".

In Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions (2023) [H6DP632H] it was determined that a single point in time is not a "period of parking" and that whilst it does not have to be the whole period of parking, there must be a minimum period stated. As there is a minimum consideration period for all private parking terms and conditions to be able to be read, it therefore means that a minimum period of parking must cover at least the minimum consideration period, which in most cases is at least 5 minutes.

Basically, what you need to do now is appeal the PCN as the Keeper. As any initial appeal is going to be rejected, we keep it short and sweet. Once rejected you will have 33 days from the appeal rejection to make an appeal to POPLA which will be more comprehensive.

There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

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I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. GroupNexus has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. GroupNexus have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #2 on: »
Thanks for taking the time to respond, it's much appreciated.

My concern is my employer may not let me make a POPLA appeal. In the past I have had to make a complaint to BPA to have them cancelled, so I may need to go that route.

Just checking I understand, you're saying that by not specifying a time/parking period, it is not compliant with FoPA, and the driver cannot be identified (we do have 2 or 3 people driving vehicles per day so I don't actually know anyway), and the liability cannot be transferred to the keeper because they have not provided relevant details to allow the driver to be identified.

In the case you mentioned it was determined that a single point in time is not a "period of parking" and that whilst it does not have to be the whole period of parking, there must be a minimum period stated. This would be a case of case law filling in the gaps of statutory law?

As for the consideration period, is that in regulation or is that part of BPA & IPC single code of practice (Which ofc they still have to comply with)?

Sorry for the questions I just like to understand what I'm saying/writing, not just copy and pasting stuff with no idea what it means.

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Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: TheParkingmeister on March 20, 2025, 03:53:42 pm
My concern is my employer may not let me make a POPLA appeal.
If you are the registered keeper of the vehicle as per the DVLA's records then what does your employer have to do with it? The notice is addressed to you, not them.

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In the case you mentioned it was determined that a single point in time is not a "period of parking" and that whilst it does not have to be the whole period of parking, there must be a minimum period stated.
Essentially yes - the period covered by the photos or stated on the notice would, at the very least, need to be long enough to show that the vehicle was there long enough to conclude that a contract has been formed giving rise to a charge.

Contract law (and to an extent, common sense) says that a person cannot be bound by contract terms he has not had the opportunity to read and acquaint himself with. The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice sets out some defined 'consideration periods' which are what they consider to be suitable minimum times allowed for this. The Code of Practice is not law, but is a useful starting point.
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Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #4 on: »
So, your employer is the RK. You will need to explain the situation to them. There is persuasive case law as I have shown you that confirms that a Parking Charge Notice, whether issued as a windscreen Notice to Driver (NtD) or a postal Notice to Keeper (NtK) or postal Notice to Hirer (NtH) that does not show a "period of parking" as an actual period of time, then it is not PoFA compliant.

Simply stating the period as "the period prior to..." or "the period after..." a single point in time is not enough to satisfy the requirements of PoFA. For the Keeper to be liable under PoFA, ALL the requirements of PoFA must be met. Just like pregnancy, you either are or you aren't. GroupNexus cannot be partially or even mostly PoFA compliant. They either are or they aren't and, as you can see and read from the persuasive case law, they aren't.

As there is no legal obligation on the Keeper (or Hirer) to identify the driver, who is the only entity that can be liable, then they have nowhere to go with this. Yes, they may try to take it all the way to a court claim but that is simply because most people are low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and they expect all this low-hanging fruit to pay up once litigation starts, out of ignorance and fear.

As we know here. from years of experience in dealing with this rogue industry that as long as a claim is defenced, the odds of them going all the way are very slim and of the few that do, most are won.

As for the "consideration period" that is quoted in Table B.1 of the PPSCoP:

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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #5 on: »
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If you are the registered keeper of the vehicle as per the DVLA's records then what does your employer have to do with it? The notice is addressed to you, not them.

What I actually meant was the company I work for is the registered keeper, so I guess I'd be considered an agent of the registered keeper.

Quote
Essentially yes - the period covered by the photos or stated on the notice would, at the very least, need to be long enough to show that the vehicle was there long enough to conclude that a contract has been formed giving rise to a charge.

Contract law (and to an extent, common sense) says that a person cannot be bound by contract terms he has not had the opportunity to read and acquaint himself with. The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice sets out some defined 'consideration periods' which are what they consider to be suitable minimum times allowed for this. The Code of Practice is not law, but is a useful starting point.

Thanks for clarifying. And atleast in my experience BPA do seem to take complaints seriously, especially where the parking firm have unequivocally violated the code of practice.
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Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote from: TheParkingmeister on March 20, 2025, 04:25:10 pm
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And atleast in my experience BPA do seem to take complaints seriously, especially where the parking firm have unequivocally violated the code of practice.

Pffft! I'm not sure what your "experience" with the BPA is, but in mine, which is long and extensive, I would not agree with you. The BPA are not fit for purpose. Why would they be? They are a Limited Company and their income is from their membership. They are loath to bite the hand that feeds them in my experience.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #7 on: »

Quote

Pffft! I'm not sure what your "experience" with the BPA is, but in mine, which is long and extensive, I would not agree with you. The BPA are not fit for purpose. Why would they be? They are a Limited Company and their income is from their membership. They are loath to bite the hand that feeds them in my experience.

Shhh don't tell me that! I need to have some faith in something!

Only dealt with them once tbf, but regarding 3 PCN's, from no other than the great GroupNexus. They were responding to my appeals demanding to know the drivers details, and not accepting or rejecting the appeals despite the registered keeper having the right to appeal.
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Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: b789 on March 20, 2025, 04:08:50 pm
So, your employer is the RK. You will need to explain the situation to them. There is persuasive case law as I have shown you that confirms that a Parking Charge Notice, whether issued as a windscreen Notice to Driver (NtD) or a postal Notice to Keeper (NtK) or postal Notice to Hirer (NtH) that does not show a "period of parking" as an actual period of time, then it is not PoFA compliant.

Simply stating the period as "the period prior to..." or "the period after..." a single point in time is not enough to satisfy the requirements of PoFA. For the Keeper to be liable under PoFA, ALL the requirements of PoFA must be met. Just like pregnancy, you either are or you aren't. GroupNexus cannot be partially or even mostly PoFA compliant. They either are or they aren't and, as you can see and read from the persuasive case law, they aren't.

As there is no legal obligation on the Keeper (or Hirer) to identify the driver, who is the only entity that can be liable, then they have nowhere to go with this. Yes, they may try to take it all the way to a court claim but that is simply because most people are low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and they expect all this low-hanging fruit to pay up once litigation starts, out of ignorance and fear.

As we know here. from years of experience in dealing with this rogue industry that as long as a claim is defenced, the odds of them going all the way are very slim and of the few that do, most are won.

As for the "consideration period" that is quoted in Table B.1 of the PPSCoP:



So, if I go all out today in my appeal to them to try and avoid going to POPLA, is there a chance the parking company could re-issue the PCN with a time period or time stamped photos? Is this the purpose of keeping it brief and then appealing to POPLA, to avoid this happening? Or is there some other reason? Thanks in advance! 🙂
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Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #9 on: »
GroupNexus, or any other unregulated parking company will never accept an initial appeal. No money in that for them.

However, as this verminous company are BPA members, any rejection will be accompanied by a POPLA code, which should give you a much better chance at a successful appeal. Even if unsuccessful at POPLA, that decision is not binding on you and has no effect on anything going forward.

Looking at your NtK, those images do have a timestamp on them so that part of any argument is out of the window. Have you gone on to their website as though to appeal and seen what other photographic evidence they have?

Just send the basic appeal provided earlier for now. Anything more than that is a wasted effort at this stage.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: b789 on March 21, 2025, 04:13:07 pm
GroupNexus, or any other unregulated parking company will never accept an initial appeal. No money in that for them.

However, as this verminous company are BPA members, any rejection will be accompanied by a POPLA code, which should give you a much better chance at a successful appeal. Even if unsuccessful at POPLA, that decision is not binding on you and has no effect on anything going forward.

Looking at your NtK, those images do have a timestamp on them so that part of any argument is out of the window. Have you gone on to their website as though to appeal and seen what other photographic evidence they have?

Just send the basic appeal provided earlier for now. Anything more than that is a wasted effort at this stage.

True, though some, like Parkingeye, won't pursue if the vehicle had broken down or had a puncture and had to be recovered or repaired and I evidence it with job sheets. Where as GroupNexus do not show that sort of kindness, according to them being dragged to the service station against your will is still accepting the terms of the contract. UKPC also have been reasonable in my experience.

And f*ck, I had to turn up the contrast to even see that, I may be colour blind! But it is still not legible, just blurred pixels. There is no images online, I logged in with the Ref no and vrm hoping to see some clear images. But no, there was nothing. There's not even an option to appeal online on their pay or appeal site anymore (have to send to that appeal email).
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Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: b789 on March 21, 2025, 04:13:07 pm
GroupNexus, or any other unregulated parking company will never accept an initial appeal. No money in that for them.

However, as this verminous company are BPA members, any rejection will be accompanied by a POPLA code, which should give you a much better chance at a successful appeal. Even if unsuccessful at POPLA, that decision is not binding on you and has no effect on anything going forward.

Looking at your NtK, those images do have a timestamp on them so that part of any argument is out of the window. Have you gone on to their website as though to appeal and seen what other photographic evidence they have?

Just send the basic appeal provided earlier for now. Anything more than that is a wasted effort at this stage.

Hi, they replied with this. Obviously haven't considered my representations or they would know I can't identify the driver because they haven't given a time. I had another PCN very similar but a completely different location, I appealed that one the same, and also got this same response. Any suggestions on how to respond?

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Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #12 on: »
Personally, I would respond to that as follows:

Quote
Dear CP Plus Ltd,

Thank you for your letter.

The contents are noted. Your request is refused.

I refer you to the reply given in the case of Arkell v Pressdram [1971].

Yours,

[Your name or initials]
« Last Edit: March 27, 2025, 10:50:27 am by b789 »
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Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: b789 on March 27, 2025, 10:48:06 am
Personally, I would respond to that as follows:

Quote
Dear CP Plus Ltd,

Thank you for your letter.

The contents are noted. Your request is refused.

I refer you to the reply given in the case of Arkell v Pressdram [1971].

Yours,

[Your name or initials]

I did respond to one of them but not the other... yet. I'm wondering if this actually requires a response and I should just wait out the 28 days, or does 8.4.1 (b) allow them to basically make up there own time frame.

The old code had section 31- Complaints, challenges and appeals. 31.1 said Operators must have procedures for dealing fairly, efficiently and promptly with any communication from the motorist. The procedures must give drivers and keepers the chance to appeal a parking charge notice.

But they seem to have done away this, and the use of words like fairly, efficiently and promptly. Lol

I have my managers support with these so that's good, means I can appeal to POPLA if necessary
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Re: GroupNexus - MOTO Thurrock - No Time of Contravention or Time Stamped Photos
« Reply #14 on: »
Just wait for the inevitable appeal rejection and the POPLA code. You will have 33 days from the appeal rejection date to make your POPLA appeal.
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Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain
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