Author Topic: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.  (Read 3051 times)

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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #60 on: »
Thank you so much. It is alot to take in but it is evident you all know what you are talking about, and i appreciate it.  I will keep you updated.

Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #61 on: »
Morning guys - I've had a reply from Popla with 2 documents of evidence from the operator - none of which contain any hire contracts of the vehicle I'm leasing. 

Document 1 is 45 pages long which just outlines the case with a ton of additional information about parking, ANPR, letter of authority from land owner to pursue parking charges, signage info, my appeal details, maps etc

Document 2 is just a screenshot outlining who Parking Eye are.

I am now instructed to:

"Please provide your comments on the operator evidence.
You have 7 days from the operator evidence submission date - 15/04/2025. You will not have opportunity to edit or add further detail once you have submitted your comments."

It feels like my comments are hitting a wall and no-one is listening ... is this standard procedure?  This is so tedious I can't believe how much time they are wasting over a frigging parking space. 

What other comments do I need to submit that I haven't already to continue?  Thank you for your time.
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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #62 on: »
If you host the files on DropBox or Google Drive (suitably redacted) we could advise but without seeing their evidence and with the tight deadline (today) for submitting your response, I guess you'll have to go through their evidence and point out any failure on their part to rebut or respond your points of appeal and to also rebut any additional points they may have included in their evidence.

You can search the forum for similar rebuttals and use some of those in yours.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #63 on: »
Thank you - I have looked around the site to try and guide myself with existing info but I end up coming to a wall an over thinking the whole thing  :o   I'd be grateful if I could Google Drive it for some expert guidance.

I hope the link works - GD Link

Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #64 on: »
Simply copy and paste the following into the response webform on the POPLA website:

Quote
ParkingEye were clearly advised in both the initial appeal and again in the POPLA appeal that their Notice to Hirer was not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and that they therefore had no lawful basis to pursue the Hirer. They ignored that point at the time, but have now confirmed in their own evidence pack, on the 6th page, that this Parking Charge was not issued under PoFA. This confirms that they cannot rely on any provisions under that statute to transfer liability. That leaves only one possible liable party: the driver. However, ParkingEye have provided no evidence whatsoever to show who the driver was. There is no identification, no admission, and no photographic or documentary evidence that points to the Hirer being the driver.

The law is absolutely clear on this. In the absence of a valid PoFA notice, liability cannot be transferred. Furthermore, there is no legal presumption that a Hirer or Keeper was the driver, and courts have repeatedly confirmed that no such assumption can be made. In the case of VCS v Edward (2023), a Circuit Judge ruled that a parking company cannot rely on any presumption or even the balance of probabilities to argue that the registered keeper—or, by extension, the hirer—was the driver. That same principle applies here. POPLA is reminded that unless the operator can show actual proof of who was driving, they cannot pursue anyone else. As ParkingEye have chosen not to rely on PoFA and cannot identify the driver, there is no lawful basis for this charge to be upheld.

A key issue raised in the appeal was whether the terms on the signage are supported by the landowner’s authority. ParkingEye have now provided a letter of authority dated 9th September 2021 from ASDA Stores Ltd. That letter confirms a single parking restriction: a maximum stay of 3 hours, plus a redacted grace period. It makes no reference whatsoever to any one-hour restriction between 9pm and 7am, and no mention at all of reduced time limits on match days or event days. This is important because ParkingEye’s signage imposes additional restrictions that are not backed up by the landowner’s agreement. They are enforcing terms that do not form part of the landowner’s authorisation and have provided no contract variation or updated agreement to justify these extra restrictions. POPLA is reminded that an operator cannot enforce parking terms that exceed what the landowner has permitted.

In addition to this, ParkingEye have ignored the point made in the appeal about the vagueness of the signage. The signs refer to “match day” or “event day” rules without defining those terms or providing any way for a motorist to know when those rules apply. There is no calendar, no on-site notice, and nothing to tell a driver whether reduced time limits are in effect on any given day. This creates uncertainty and confusion, and fails the requirement for clear and transparent terms. ParkingEye have not responded to this issue at all and have given no explanation as to how a motorist would be expected to interpret or comply with those ambiguous restrictions.

In conclusion, ParkingEye have failed to rebut the core grounds of the appeal. They have now admitted that PoFA does not apply, confirming that they cannot hold the Hirer liable. They have provided no evidence of who was driving and have ignored binding case law that prevents any assumption being made. They have also failed to demonstrate that the signage terms they are enforcing were authorised by the landowner, and have not addressed the serious ambiguity in those signs. As such, the operator has not met the burden of proof and the appeal must be allowed.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2025, 02:02:54 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #65 on: »
Thank you - I really, really appreciate it.  I'll update in due course.

Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #66 on: »
First things first!

Where's POPLA's letter telling you by when your comments have to be submitted?

Is 15th April your calculation of the latest date or is it the date of their notification amd therefore you have a further period in which to submit??

It does rather matter which it is!!!

And reference to a page number in your numbering is not a reference to a page number in PE's evidence because....they're not numbered!
« Last Edit: April 15, 2025, 01:55:43 pm by H C Andersen »

Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #67 on: »
Assuming the OP can do simple maths, they have 7 days from the date the operators evidence pack was emailed to them.

I have now edited the response to "6th page", in order to satisfy grammar and any OCD vulnerabilities. Hopefully the POPLA assessor will understand what is meant.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #68 on: »
Which was when?

OP, pl post this all important document.

And while on the subject of precision, IMO there are very, very serious GDPR issues at play here.

As PE have acknowledged that they are not relying on and have not at any stage sought to rely on PoFA then their only legal avenue was to write to the keeper and invite them to pay.

That's it.

The HIRER does not come into this.

They have used the HIRER's details - teased out of the registered keeper- unlawfully IMO and tried to cloak their deceit and wrongdoing in PoFA-like clothes.

There isn't a 'we can see you're only the keeper but it's the driver's details we need therefore pl give us the hirer's details and we'll write to them instead and try to bluff money out of them, even going to the lengths of defending an 'appeal'' option.

There's no provision for this deceit in the PPSCOP so they can't even use this as an excuse.

 

Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #69 on: »
I wouldn't worry. It's only POPLA and it is hit and miss whether you get a sensible assessor or one of the feckwit morons that they employ.

The detailed nuance can be saved for a claim if this appeal is not successful. there is enough evidence to blow the operator out of the water should they try and litigate this matter.

The original appeal has not been refuted or rebutted by the operator, so if this response to the evidence pack is submitted too late... so what?
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #70 on: »
OP, pl just post what's been requested and try and engage with the available procedures.

Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #71 on: »
Good afternoon gang - I'm pleased to say, thanks to all your help, my appeal was accepted on the following grounds:

-The appellant has provided a detailed account surrounding the parking event in question. For the purpose of my report, I have summarised the grounds raised into the points below. • The Notice to Hirer fails to comply with POFA, schedule 4, paragraphs 13 and 14 • The operator has failed to provide the required documents • There is no evidence of the driver's identity • The signage is ambiguous and has unenforceable terms • The signs fail the test of fairness and transparency under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 • No evidence of landowner authority • They request documents from the operator • They are the hirer of the vehicle and do not identify as the driver The appellant has provided 1. A copy of a third party document naming the hirer of the vehicle After reviewing the operator’s evidence, the appellant reiterates on their grounds of appeal. They expand on PoFA and the signage in the car park. All of the above has been considered in making my determination..

Thank you again.  Is there a pub kitty I can contribute to?

:-*  :-*  :-*
« Last Edit: June 16, 2025, 12:18:31 pm by Jibberjabber »
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Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #72 on: »
Not unexpected. However, can you please post the full POPLA decision, so we can use it for our records.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: ParkingEye Charge Notice for 3minutes in retail carpark.
« Reply #73 on: »
In full :

The appellant has provided a detailed account surrounding the parking event in question. For the purpose of my report, I have summarised the grounds raised into the points below. • The Notice to Hirer fails to comply with POFA, schedule 4, paragraphs 13 and 14 • The operator has failed to provide the required documents • There is no evidence of the driver's identity • The signage is ambiguous and has unenforceable terms • The signs fail the test of fairness and transparency under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 • No evidence of landowner authority • They request documents from the operator • They are the hirer of the vehicle and do not identify as the driver The appellant has provided 1. A copy of a third party document naming the hirer of the vehicle After reviewing the operator’s evidence, the appellant reiterates on their grounds of appeal. They expand on PoFA and the signage in the car park. All of the above has been considered in making my determination.

Assessor supporting rational for decision
I am allowing this appeal and will detail my reasoning below. By issuing a PCN the parking operator has implied that the terms and conditions of the private land have not been met. When an appeal is brought to POPLA, the burden of proof begins with the parking operator to demonstrate the breach they claim has occurred. I must therefore assess the terms and conditions of the site, any relevant code of practice, or legislation to determine if the PCN has been issued correctly. In this case the operator has issued the PCN for remaining at the car park for longer than the authorised stay. In this appeal, I am satisfied that the driver of the vehicle has not been identified. The appellant is appealing on behalf of a company and that company hired the vehicle in question. As the operator is chasing the appellant as the hirer they will need to comply with Section 13 of the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 which states the following: “A notice to hirer can be issued; If within 29 days of the date of the notice to keeper (starting 2 working days after the date on the notice to keeper, if sent by post) the vehicle hire company provides; · a statement signed by a representative of the vehicle hire company stating that the vehicle was hired out at the time · a copy of the hire agreement · a copy of a statement of liability signed by the person who hired the vehicle stating that the hirer will be responsible for any parking charges incurred while it is hired (it doesn’t matter if it refers to any other charges, it must refer to parking charges). On review of the case file provided, the operator has failed to show the above documents have been received which would enable them to transfer liability for the PCN successfully to the appellant, as the hirer. As such, the appellant cannot be held liable for the parking charge. I note the appellant has raised other issues as grounds for appeal, however, as I have decided to allow the appeal for the reason above, I did not feel they required further consideration.
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