Free Traffic Legal Advice

It's been over a month and no response to the SAR.

Sent this letter today:-
                        
"25 August 2023
Excel Parking Services Ltd
7 Europa View
Sheffield Business Park
Sheffield
S9 1XH

Dear Sirs,
PCN Reference
Reg No
Subject Access Request

Further to my letter of 14 July applying for a Subject Access Request, you have failed to send this to me within the 30 days prescribed under the legislation.

I am therefore giving you a further 7 days to comply with my request, failing which I will report the failure to the ICO. I will also regard any further communication received from you or your agents as harassment and will take such action as may be appropriate.

If you do not normally deal with these matters, please pass this letter to your data protection officer or relevant staff member"

We'll see what happens now.

So far we know:
The creditor claims that at 17.02 the motorist was 'parked after the expiry of time purchased'.

We don't know:
How much time was purchased and when.

Which is why we've applied for a SAR

The SAR has now been received and Excel Parking have provided the requested information.

So many questions, please bear with me!

The ticket which my daughter bought and displayed in her windscreen (as required under the terms and conditions) shows a starting time of 16.49.

The PCN shows a contravention time of 17.02

The camera shows her car exiting the car park at 17.00.

The various photographs taken by the parking attendant are timed at 16:50:52 to 16:51:19 which are 2 minutes after the 1 hour parking time.

The questions which arise are:-

1 If their camera shows the car exiting at 17.00 the contravention could not have taken place at 17.02, so is the PCN enforceable in court? The signage says that that the site is monitored by CCTV/ANPR for the purposes of ensuring compliance with the terms and conditions. So the time stamp of the exit photo must surely be the time of any contravention?

2 The current signage does not mention anything about a grace period not applying. The photograph taken at the time by the parking attendant is unhelpful as it is too blurred to be read. Allowing for a minimum 10 minute grace period, the ticket could have been purchased at 16:49:59 which would give a grace period expiring at 16:59:59 a full 1 second before the earliest recorded exit time. Is a judge likely to consider this as a breach of contract?

3 The post by SPARXY above shows that the code of practice in force at the relevant time suggests a MINIMUM period of 10 minutes grace period. I’m not sure why it would specify a minimum rather than a maximum period. So with nothing specified, would 11 minutes (ie 16.49 to 17.00) be a reasonable period to argue with shopping to unload and 2 toddlers to deal with? Could she really be considered as “overstaying” if loading the car and driving to the exit would have taken around at least a minute and would have brought her well within the minimum grace period?

4 The signage (posted above) has a sign showing the terms and conditions in a separate box on the right hand side Those include things like displaying the ticket clearly, entering your reg no, parking between the lines, disabled badge holders to pay, etc etc. It doesn’t mention anything about not overstaying. At the top left of the sign is the tariff and at the bottom left is a box which explains the circumstances giving rise to a £100 charge (but is not headed terms and conditions). That box refers again to breaking the terms and conditions and each item mentioned there refers to one of the terms and conditions except the overstay.

As previously stated the photograph supplied of the signage in force is blurred and appears to be set out slightly differently, but I assume it contains the same details.

So the point I’m questioning is does an overstay breach the terms and conditions if the maximum period is not shown as part of the terms and conditions? Or could it be argued that my daughter complied with the terms and conditions as listed and no breach of contract has occurred?

5 The parking attendants notes include:

“Driver drove off before I could take the last pictures” yet his pictures were taken ten minutes before the exit time.
“Car parked after the ticket purchased has expired” ignoring the grace period
“Ticket edited on 02-07-2018 by Jack Bailey” no idea what this means.
All these notes are timed after the car had exited.

Thoughts and advice please.

What does the attendant mean about "last pictures"? He had 10 minutes to take additional pictures. Does this refer to pictures he would have taken to show that the car was still there after the grace period?

No one has come forward with any other views, so does the following sound OK? Anything she shouldn't be saying?

I refer to the pre-legal action notice received from your agent Debt Recovery Plus which includes the statements:

“Is there clear evidence of a breach of the contract? Yes”
“Are the charges appropriate and fair as defined by the Parking Trade Association? Yes”

As previously mentioned to you I do not agree with these responses and deny that any breach of contract has occurred.
Firstly, your PCN alleges a contravention time of 17:02. However, your exit camera clearly shows my vehicle as finally exiting the site at 17:00, so the alleged contravention did not occur.

Secondly there is a discrepancy, as far as I’m concerned, in the timings.

In the case of ParkingEye v Beavis Lord  Neuberger and Lord Sumption said:-

“It is right to add that, as communicated to any overstayer from
whom the charge is demanded, ParkingEye has an appeals procedure, and the BPA
Code of Practice provides at paragraph 13.4 for a reasonable grace period after the
expiry of the fixed parking period. The appeals procedure provides a degree of
protection for any overstayer, who would be able to cite any special circumstances
as a reason for avoiding the charge. And, while the Code of Practice is not a
contractual document, it is in practice binding on the operator since its existence and
observance is a condition of his ability to obtain details of the registered keeper from
the DVLA. In assessing the fairness of a term, it cannot be right to ignore the
regulatory framework which determines how and in what circumstances it may be
enforced.”

I understand that you are a member of the International Parking Community (IPC) and their Code of Practice which existed at the time of the alleged contravention (v6 1st April 2017) included the following:-

“15. Grace Periods
15.1 Drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to park and read any signs so
they may make an informed decision as to whether or not to remain on the site.
15.2 Drivers must be allowed a minimum period of 10 minutes to leave a site after a
pre-paid or permitted period of parking has expired.
15.3 The reference to 10 minutes in 15.2 above shall not apply where the period of pre-paid
or permitted parking does not exceed 1 hour providing that the signage on the site
makes it clear to the motorist, in a prominent font, that no grace period applies on that
land.”

There is nothing in your signage to indicate that the grace period does not apply for the purposes of 15.3 and therefore you are required to follow the provisions of 15.2 which gives the driver a grace period of a minimum period of 10 minutes to leave the site after the expiry of the paid for period.

There is an inconsistency between the timings shown on your parking tickets and those shown on your ANPR camera and the parking attendant’s camera in that the former does not include seconds whereas the latter two do include seconds.

The parking ticket shows an expiry time of 16:49. This could easily be extended to mean 16:49:59.
A minimum 10 minute grace period would expire at 16:59:59.

Your exit camera shows my vehicle as finally exiting the site at 17:00:32, some 33 seconds after the latest possible expiry time. I do not have the benefit of video evidence and have no idea how long my vehicle might have been stationary at the exit allowing for passing traffic before being captured by your camera. However, this does not take account of my action of leaving the site which would have begun at the time I entered my vehicle and begun leaving the site which more than likely commenced within the grace period.

The photographs of my vehicle taken by your parking attendant, showing my vehicle to be on the site, were all taken at around 16:50 just after the expiry time shown on the parking ticket and well within the grace period. There are no photographs evidencing my vehicle being on the site after the expiry of the grace period.

I also refer to the contemporaneous notes taken by your parking attendant which include:

At 17:01:54 “car parked after the ticket purchased has expired” This is timed after my vehicle had left the site and makes no provision for the grace period.
At 17:02:05 “Driver drove off before I could take the last pictures” I assume from this that the attendant was intending to take a picture of my vehicle on site after the grace period but his failure to do so was because my vehicle had already left the site within said period (being a minimum of 10 minutes).
At 17:14:10 “Ticket edited on 02-07-2018 by Jack Bailey” I have no idea what this means or even how anyone can edit a ticket which is inside my vehicle.

I therefore do not agree with your contention that there is a clear evidence of a breach of the contract and further would assert that there is clear evidence that the alleged contravention at 17:02 did not occur as my vehicle was shown as exiting the site at 17:00 and would invite you to reconsider.

I look forward to hearing that you can rescind the PCN.

Yours faithfully,



"

The ticket which my daughter bought and displayed in her windscreen (as required under the terms and conditions) shows a starting time of 16.49.

The PCN shows a contravention time of 17.02

The camera shows her car exiting the car park at 17.00.

The various photographs taken by the parking attendant are timed at 16:50:52 to 16:51:19 which are 2 minutes after the 1 hour parking time.

So, she paid for 1 hour's parking starting at 16:49, exited the car park 11 minutes later and somehow managed to exceed the 1 hour at 17:02, 2 minutes after she left the car park (13 minutes after the starting time displayed on the ticket)?

Quote from: Staygulf on August 30, 2023, 08:56:52 pm

The ticket which my daughter bought and displayed in her windscreen (as required under the terms and conditions) shows a starting time of 16.49.

The PCN shows a contravention time of 17.02

The camera shows her car exiting the car park at 17.00.

The various photographs taken by the parking attendant are timed at 16:50:52 to 16:51:19 which are 2 minutes after the 1 hour parking time.

So, she paid for 1 hour's parking starting at 16:49, exited the car park 11 minutes later and somehow managed to exceed the 1 hour at 17:02, 2 minutes after she left the car park (13 minutes after the starting time displayed on the ticket)?

I take it that the time on the ticket is the expiry time, unless you can show anything to the contrary. I think I wrongly put starting time

I take it that the time on the ticket is the expiry time, unless you can show anything to the contrary. I think I wrongly put starting time

Yes, change that to expiry time. It says it was issued at 15:49 at the bottom.

As an aside, if you look at the CURRENT signage posted earlier on in my thread, it does say that the site is monitored by CCTV/ANPR cameras and by parking attendants.

A lot of car park signage includes both as a matter of course. Presumably to save the cost of having to change the signs if they change enforcement methods.