Author Topic: Excel Parking Services Ltd - Incorrect Registration - Leeds Crown Street 24Hr Pay Car Park  (Read 820 times)

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Posting on behalf of the keeper of the vehicle (although they have, regrettably, already informed them who was driving)

The driver of the vehicle drove into the car park at approximately 19:10, he parked his vehicle and within the allotted 10 minute time paid for his ticket. He paid the £3.00 tariff which covers him for the period Excel claim he has not paid for. The machine initially errored, so he cancelled, then restarted and made payment.

Evidence initially was just a bank statement, however later found a card sales receipt though it does state on the bottom NOT A PARKING TICKET.

This card sales receipt does state £3.00 and 19:14 which is within the allotted 10 minutes you have to pay.

The above was stated in the initial appeal.

We went back and forth but no ground was made, they just stated that they didn't have anything on record showing my car paying for it, though didn't show me the licence plates that they did later on.

So I submitted it to IAS and they have just replied with a long list of information but I'll outline what I think are the key parts, please let me know if I should include more:

"We have not disputed at any stage that the appellant did not make a payment to park. We must note that the appellant's bank statemnet and payment receipt (which clearly states is it not a parking ticket) does not evidence the vehicle registration paid for and therefore no evidence has been supplied that the appellant made a valid payment for their full VRM within the consideration period. This is confirmed by the supplied data which shows no such payment."

With regards to the above, they have then included the first image I've attached, hopefully this is allowed. They continue on with:

"A possible payment for the incomplete VRM ‘P' is shown. This has not been confirmed to be the appellant's, however if so would still be invalid as the full accurate VRM was not entered. The data shows other motorists successfully paying for their full VRMs and we are therefore satisfied that the machine was working correctly. If the appellant had any difficulty they could have paid online instead, called the helpline or found alternative parking.

It was the appellant's sole responsibility to ensure they were parked according to the terms and conditions on the signage. It is not unreasonable to expect the appellant to have checked their ticket to ensure all details were correct before leaving the vehicle parked and take corrective action if needed. If for any reason this was not possible they had the option to call the helpline for advice or find alternative parking within the consideration period."

Obviously the person driving has accidently typed P instead of the full registration, which starts with P. You can tell because NO. 255 on the image is taken at 19:13 and then the receipt is printed dated at 19:14, the vehicles reg starts with P.

I understand this may be jumbled as it's slightly stressful but please let me know if you need any more information, where do I go from here? The options that seem to be presented for me are to either Submit Response or Refer The Case Straight To Arbitration.



Edit:

Wouldn't let me upload files, sorry!

https://imgur.com/a/gnsZH0v They're all here.

Also full context of what they stated below:

"1. The Crown Street car park is private land and motorists are allowed to enter it to park their vehicle provided that they abide by any displayed conditions of parking.

2. The signage on site states ‘After a vehicle has entered the car park, a maximum period of 10 minutes is allowed to purchase the required Parking Tariff' and ‘You must ensure the FULL AND ACCURATE VEHICLE REGISTRATION MARK (VRM) of the vehicle on site is provided when making payment'. Signage makes clear that any motorist not adhering to these conditions will be held liable for a charge.

3. Site photos and the site map supplied show that signage can be seen at the entrance and throughout the car park. The adjudicator will note that the EPS signage onsite, including its wording and positioning has been audited by the IPC, has passed audit, complies with the IPC Code of Practice and is deemed fit for purpose.

4. There are 2 ticket machines onsite, one pay by card and one pay by cash and Pay By phone and online payment facilities are available at this car park via the Parkonomy and YourParkingSpace Apps.

5. Management of the car park is conducted by ANPR cameras, which take photographs of vehicle registration numbers as vehicles enter and leave the car park. The VRM images are compared with tickets purchased at the P&D machines or by phone and any vehicle that remains on the car park for 10 minutes and fails to purchase a valid P&D ticket or make a valid payment by phone is issued a Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

6. The ANPR cameras record the time of a vehicle's entry and exit from the car park and the images supplied show that the appellant's vehicle entered the car park 19:10:25 at and exited at 19:58:38; a duration of 48min 13sec.

7. Payment data supplied, taken from the database at the Crown Street car park on the date of contravention shows that no payment was made for the appellant's full and accurate VRM during the 10 minutes consideration period granted to the appellant upon entering the car park or at any time whilst the vehicle was on site.

8. We have not disputed at any stage that the appellant did not make a payment to park. We must note that the appellant's bank statemnet and payment receipt (which clearly states is it not a parking ticket) does not evidence the vehicle registration paid for and therefore no evidence has been supplied that the appellant made a valid payment for their full VRM within the consideration period. This is confirmed by the supplied data which shows no such payment.

9. A possible payment for the incomplete VRM ‘P' is shown. This has not been confirmed to be the appellant's, however if so would still be invalid as the full accurate VRM was not entered. The data shows other motorists successfully paying for their full VRMs and we are therefore satisfied that the machine was working correctly. If the appellant had any difficulty they could have paid online instead, called the helpline or found alternative parking.

10. It was the appellant's sole responsibility to ensure they were parked according to the terms and conditions on the signage. It is not unreasonable to expect the appellant to have checked their ticket to ensure all details were correct before leaving the vehicle parked and take corrective action if needed. If for any reason this was not possible they had the option to call the helpline for advice or find alternative parking within the consideration period.

11. The adjudicator will note that the EPS signage onsite, including its wording and positioning has been audited by the IPC, has passed audit, complies with the IPC Code of Practice and is deemed fit for purpose.

12. The appellant became liable for the Parking Charge Notice issued, as per the Terms and Conditions displayed by failing to make a valid payment for the vehicle on site within the consideration period."
« Last Edit: September 12, 2024, 05:37:29 pm by roodymoops »

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Welcome to the vermin infested world of the bottom-dwelling scammers, which include the intellectually malnourished, ex-clampers, Excel Parking Services Ltd.

Was the PCN issued as a Notice to Driver (NtD) windscreen ticket or a postal Notice to Keeper (NtK)? Please show us a photo of the notice received.

As you (or your friend) are dealing with a vexatious nasty firm of cowboys (Hansard), as you have already discovered, no appeal is going to be successful with them or their incestuous (not independent) IAS. The only way this is going to end is if/when they decide to make a debt claim for the charge. That is a good thing, because a hearing in the small claims track of the county court is the ultimate dispute resolution service. Only an independent judge would decide whether you owed a debt to Excel.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Welcome to the vermin infested world of the bottom-dwelling scammers, which include the intellectually malnourished, ex-clampers, Excel Parking Services Ltd.

Was the PCN issued as a Notice to Driver (NtD) windscreen ticket or a postal Notice to Keeper (NtK)? Please show us a photo of the notice received.

As you (or your friend) are dealing with a vexatious nasty firm of cowboys (Hansard), as you have already discovered, no appeal is going to be successful with them or their incestuous (not independent) IAS. The only way this is going to end is if/when they decide to make a debt claim for the charge. That is a good thing, because a hearing in the small claims track of the county court is the ultimate dispute resolution service. Only an independent judge would decide whether you owed a debt to Excel.

Thanks very much for replying!

https://imgur.com/a/SX3JvS1 this is the NtK that they sent to his address.

I suppose I always knew that, I guess this was more of a feeler for if the payment of £60 outweighs the hassle that is to come.

Do you believe they should do anything further with regards to the 2 options presented of Submit Response or Refer The Case Straight To Arbitration.

If I don't do either of those 2 what happens from that point?

I appreciate you helping me with this already.

It's a pity that the Keeper divulged the drivers identity as there is a PoFA failure that could have been exploited. Never mind.

I'm not sure what you meant by this:

Quote
Do you believe they should do anything further with regards to the 2 options presented of Submit Response or Refer The Case Straight To Arbitration.

According to your OP, the driver has exhausted the futile initial and IAS appeals options.

Quote
I suppose I always knew that, I guess this was more of a feeler for if the payment of £60 outweighs the hassle that is to come.
Or what is commonly referred to as the "mugs discount".

The process that is likely to happen is that the driver is then in a state of limbo. Excel will send some reminders and utilise a useless debt collection company to add a fake £70 to the £100 charge and hope that their victim is low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and will capitulate.

Under no circumstances would the driver engage with any debt collectors. They are not a party to the contract allegedly breached by the driver and their threats and language are simply hot air. I repeat, no engagement with debt collectors. They can 100% be safely ignored.

At some stage, Excel will engage a sleazy firm of bulk litigators or possibly use a firm by the name of Elms Legal to issue a Letter of Claim (LoC). If/when that is received, come back for advice on how to respond to the LoC. An LoC will be different from other debt collection letters in that it must give 30 days for any demand for payment whereas the DRA letters will usually only give 14 days.

Whether the LoC is responded to or not, Elms will file the claim through MCOL and then withdraw from the case, handing it back to Excel. A claim, if/when it arrives must be responded to. It will be from the CNBC. There are some processes to go through at that stage with strict deadlines such as Acknowledging Service (AoS) and submitting a defence. These are bridges that we can cross if/when we come to them.

The Defendant will have a good case and here are some defence points that could be used (not an exhaustive list):

Quote
It can be argued that the charge is penal in nature because Excel Parking Services Ltd has not suffered any financial loss.

1. Penalty, Not Compensation: The charge is intended as a penalty rather than compensation for any actual loss. Since the defendant paid for the parking session and Excel Parking has acknowledged a payment at the relevant time, they have not suffered any financial loss. In the absence of a loss, any charge should be seen as disproportionate and punitive.

Citing the infamous ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] case which allowed certain charges as justified under specific circumstances as it was largely due to the nature of that particular car park (i.e., free parking with a commercial justification). In this case, the charge is disproportionate, as the defendant paid for the parking session and did not overstay or avoid payment.

2. Unenforceable Penalty Clause
Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA): The terms imposing the penalty are unfair and thus unenforceable under the CRA. This includes provisions that create disproportionate financial consequences for minor, technical errors like the failure to fully print a VRM.

Absence of Commercial Justification: Unlike the Beavis case, there is no clear commercial justification for penalising the defendant for a system error when they paid for parking.

3. Proportionality of the Charge
Penalty Principle: Excel's charge is excessive and penal in nature, especially given the minimal error (if any) in the transaction process. Courts generally frown upon penal charges that are not a genuine reflection of a company's loss.

Arguing that the charge is penal adds a powerful line of defence in addition to the other points about system failure and unfair terms. This demonstrates that Excel's enforcement is neither reasonable nor proportionate.

As I said, that list is not exhaustive and until we see the Particulars of Claim (PoC), it is way too early to say exactly what to include in the defence. Invariably, there are errors in the claimants submissions that would be argued too.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2024, 07:03:12 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

It's a pity that the Keeper divulged the drivers identity as there is a PoFA failure that could have been exploited. Never mind.

I'm not sure what you meant by this:

Quote
Do you believe they should do anything further with regards to the 2 options presented of Submit Response or Refer The Case Straight To Arbitration.

According to your OP, the driver has exhausted the futile initial and IAS appeals options.


My mistake on this sorry. The keeper has got to the point where they submitted the initial appeal on IAS and is now at the point where Excel have come back with all this evidence and they have presented 2 options, either submit a response to refute this evidence or refer the case to arbitration (this is on IAS website).

They have 8 days to decide what they want to do with that part.


As for the rest of your comment, thank you, that clears up most of it though I understand it will be a burden for quite a while to come.

The IAS are often a waste of time. That said, if they've already gone to the effort of writing and submitting an IAS appeal, they might as well take the time to refute Excel's evidence as well.

I'm not sure if there's a character limit, but they could also introduce some of the stuff b789 suggests above. You're not supposed to use that stage to introduce new arguments, but it will at least show Excel you know what you're talking about.

Thanks DWMB2, I've got a lot of good information from this thread.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, the person who got this ticket (it's not me) is actually in the RAF and will be deployed there before the end of the month.

Who does he need to inform, if any, about this? I don't want them sending letters to the address he has currently (his parents) as he won't be living there very shortly.

Who does he need to inform, if any, about this? I don't want them sending letters to the address he has currently (his parents) as he won't be living there very shortly.
Ordinarily when someone moves address, they should advise the potential claimant (i.e. Excel) of their new address for service. I'll be honest I have absolutely no knowledge of how post etc. works in the military - will he have a postal address at which he can receive post?

If it does get to a claim, there are some details on service of documents here: https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part06/pd_part06a#5.1

Ordinarily when someone moves address, they should advise the potential claimant (i.e. Excel) of their new address for service. I'll be honest I have absolutely no knowledge of how post etc. works in the military - will he have a postal address at which he can receive post?

No worries, I can't expect you all to know everything! You've both been a massive help, more than I expected online.

I'll just have to move ahead as suggested and perhaps I'll come back to this forum if/when it comes to a claim and the keeper needs further assistance.

Again, thanks both of you for the massive help.

If the Keeper is going to be deployed abroad and there is a possibility that they are facing litigation, they need to write to the PPC and inform them.

Send a formal letter or email to the PPC (and any legal representatives they might use, if known) explaining that they will be deployed abroad for at least [X] months, starting from a specific date, and that they will not be available to respond to any legal matters during this period. They can request that the PPC delay any action until after their return.

Keep a Record: Ensure they keep a copy of this communication and get a confirmation of receipt from the PPC. This shows that they informed them about their deployment and their inability to respond to any potential claim.

The can appoint a trusted representative (such as a friend, family member) who can monitor their post for any claim forms or legal documents. This person can inform them of any claim that is issued and handle procedural matters in their absence, if necessary.

If a claim is filed while they are away and served at their last known address, their representative can make an application to the court for a stay of proceedings on their behalf, citing their deployment as the reason for being unable to respond.

If no representative is in place and the claim is served while they’re  deployed, they can later challenge any default judgment if one is entered against them by proving that they were not able to respond due to military service.

There is something about civil litigation matters for serving members of the armed forces but for the life of me, I can’t find it now. However, serving military personnel do have certain protections under both common law principles and specific military legislation when it comes to civil litigation. These protections ensure that military duties, especially during deployment, are taken into account in legal proceedings.


Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

I too parked at Excel Parking Crown Street 24Hr Pay Car Park on 28/08/2024, entered my registration, paid and took the ticket to put in the car visible through the windscreen. On returning to the car I picked up the ticket noticing the ticket had only printed the first letter of my number plate ‘G’ but not the other 6. I made an appeal in www.myparkingcharge.co.uk advising I entered my number plate correctly but the machine printed out only ‘G’. Similar to roodymoops on September 12, 2024, 05:34:16 pm I received a letter advising my appeal was rejected and next I should either 1.Pay the Charge Notice or 2. Appeal to the IAS.
If there are 2 of us reporting the same problem on this site the machine must be occassionally faulting. Is there an appropriate way to refer to roodymoops entry as evidence to send to appeal to IAS. If it helps I am also happy for my comments to be provided to roodymoops.

This a much wider issue than just you two. We know of hundreds of similar cases.

Appealing to the IAS is futile. Unless you can evidence with video that you entered a ful VRM and then show the ticket being printed with something different, they will simply say, you entered it wrongly.

The PPCs love this because it is a cash cow for them. There is absolutely no reason, with today’s technology, that they cannot have a system that will refuse payment for a VRM that has not been registered by ANPR.

There are other legal arguments that can be used to defend these cases if the ever get to court. If you would like to explore them, please start your own thread.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain