Author Topic: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay  (Read 9851 times)

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Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
« Reply #30 on: »
Intercity - thanks for all your help. I'll post back here should an LBA appear.


Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
« Reply #31 on: »
Hang on a minute guys - this seems to be pretty crucial..


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Here the missing limb is 9(2)(e)(i). That sub-paragraph requires the NtK to invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges. The law is explicit that the invitation must be directed to “the keeper”. It is not enough to tell “the driver” to pay; it must invite “the keeper” to pay if the creditor wants keeper liability.

9(2)(e) says

(i) OR
(ii)

So "invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges" OR "if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver".

The NtK says



so they have complied with 9(2)(e).  9(2)(e) says do (i) OR (ii) and they've done (ii).

No?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2026, 11:38:48 pm by Innocentman »

Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
« Reply #32 on: »
No.

The legislation requires that the NtK invite the keeper to pay the charges OR nominate another driver.

I understand the point which you are making - that the operator has a choice as to which one they invite the driver to do - but that isn't in keeping with the grammar of the text of the legislation.

Also, ask yourself; what purpose would your interpretation serve? It wouldn't make any sense or serve any purpose?


Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
« Reply #33 on: »
The PCN also quite clearly states that if the driver is not identified they will pursue the keeper. The key issue here is whether the NTK has to have the exact wording contained within the legislation or not. Some people on here believe the wording needs to be exact, others are not so sure and the private parking companies and the independent appeals services certainly don't think that is the case.

So until a claim  gets to court that is solely defended on this basis and wins we don't really have definitive answer (and even then its not binding on other claims). So if a keeper doesn't want to pay a PCN and has no proper grounds to appeal then it makes for an official sounding appeal which will help,run the clock down until a claim is possibly issued. If on there other hand there are better grounds for appeal, clear breach of the code, NTK issued too late, signage issues, frustration of contract etc. , its much better to use those arguments as they might actually get an appeal granted and if it isn't the keeper is no worse off.

Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
« Reply #34 on: »
No.

The legislation requires that the NtK invite the keeper to pay the charges OR nominate another driver.

I understand the point which you are making - that the operator has a choice as to which one they invite the driver to do - but that isn't in keeping with the grammar of the text of the legislation.

Mmm.  I understand the point which you are making, but IMO the grammar is clear.  The whole of Para 9(2) talks about what the notice must do or contain - it must do (a) and (b) and (c) etc, until we get to (e) which is to be read as 'the notice must do (e)(i) or the notice must do (e)(ii)'.

If we look at 9(2)(a) it says that the notice must "specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates".

9(2)(b) - "inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full"

IMO if 9(2)(e) was meant to say that the notice must invite the keeper to either pay up or to throw the driver under the bus it would have been worded something like

(e) state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and
a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper to pay
the unpaid parking charges or if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle,
to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for
service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;

But as it is, with a 9(2)(e)(i) separated from a 9(2)(e)(ii) with a '; or' it's not saying 'the notice must invite the keeper to do this or to do that', it's saying 'the notice must invite the keeper to do this or the notice must invite the keeper to do that'.

But as ixxy says, it would need a court case to determine exactly what it means.

Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
« Reply #35 on: »
If 9(2)(e) was stated and then followed by 9(2)(e)(ii) but without 9(2)(e)(i) then it would read as gibberish?

Namely;

The notice must state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver.


As I suggested earlier - what would be the point of allowing the parking operator to chose between the two different invitations?

There's no question in my mind that the legislation requires that the notice state the prescribed wording (or near enough) AND then immediately offer the two limbed invitation to the keeper.

I understand your point regarding your 'all-in-one' passage of wording but it could be that legislators specifically wished to underline the requirement of offering the two limbed invitation.

If you read other Acts then you will see that this method of presentation is very commonplace - look at 9(2)(f) which also contains a multi-limb requirement but this time under AND logic.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2026, 11:13:00 am by InterCity125 »