Author Topic: Euro Parking County court letter  (Read 4756 times)

0 Members and 202 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #45 on: »
Where did you park?

From looking back at your defence and witness statement, the argument that the signage is forbidding and therefore incapable of forming a contract (as it doesn't make an offer to those who are not authorised) doesn't come across particularly strongly. Did you communicate this point in court?

I also wonder whether an argument that the signage was unlit and not visible is undermined by your argument that you did read the signage but found it confusing...

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #46 on: »
It was a dispute hearing. I was parked by the entrance and Gladstones had an image of a car that pulled alongside my car. This was someone who had stopped to talk to me whilst I was still in the car. The judge thought it had stopped because I was parked near the entrance but I explained that this person was actually having a conversation with me.

The judge did say that in my favour Gladstone's have not set out the conduct which amounted to the breach in reliance upon which the claimant would be able to bring a claim for breach of contract - Civil Enforcement Limited v Chan (Ref. E7GM9W44) and that as the sign were unlit and it was at night time that I had a point there.

He said on Gladstone's side he did not believe that where I parked was a layby, it was a car park and that I was potentially parked blocking the entrance.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #47 on: »
Where did you park?

From looking back at your defence and witness statement, the argument that the signage is forbidding and therefore incapable of forming a contract (as it doesn't make an offer to those who are not authorised) doesn't come across particularly strongly. Did you communicate this point in court?

I also wonder whether an argument that the signage was unlit and not visible is undermined by your argument that you did read the signage but found it confusing...

I parked by the entrance but left the walkway clear for pedestrians and no cars were in the site and so I was not blocking anyone. I stayed in the car with the lights on so could easily move if I did block anyone.

Should I focus on this point at the next hearing? - the argument that the signage is forbidding and therefore incapable of forming a contract

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #48 on: »
Hi all, I'm just giving this one a push for advice on what I should focus on for the next hearing.

Thanks, in advance.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #49 on: »
@DWMB2 @b789 Have you guys got any thoughts on what would be the main focus points for me at the hearing?

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #50 on: »
Having gone back through the thread and read your Defence and WS, you have a good chance if you are able to raise some points that should have been expanded on in the WS. When is the hearing? Which court?

It is interesting that the dispute resolution hearing judge pointed out the serious flaw in Gladstone's filing of the claim in that they never set out the conduct that amounted to the alleged breach. The whole point of including the CEL v Chan appeal court judgment (which should have been included in the original defence as a "Preliminary matter" but wasn't) is that it is persuasive and the judge should have thrown the claim out for that breach alone.

Obviously, he knew about it and you should raise this matter as the very first thing at your next hearing. You need to ask the judge to dismiss the claim on that basis. However, if the judge disagrees, then you must raise the following issue as it was mentioned in your defence but not explained very clearly:

Whilst you have admitted being the driver and therefore they are not relying on PoFA to hold you liable as keeper, they did so in the original NtK (even though it was flawed in that respect). According to PoFA 2012 4(5), if they had intended to rely on the Act, the maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 8(2)(c) or (d) or, as the case may be, 9(2)(d) (less any payments towards the unpaid parking charges which are received after the time so specified). The maximum sum they can claim is £100 as shown in the original NtK.

It may be a lot to try and take in but you should make the effort to read and understand what you are going to be arguing.

The claimant's current claim is for £170 (or whatever amount is shown in the first box of the amount claimed on the N1SDT claim form), which exceeds the amount of the unpaid parking charges as stated in the original notice. The claimant’s attempt to claim an unlawful amount constitutes an abuse of process and should not be allowed to proceed. You should respectfully request the judge to dismiss the claim on the basis of the claimant’s contravention of Schedule 4, Paragraph 4(5) of PoFA and thereby CPR 1.1, CPR 3.4(2)(a) and (b) and CPR 27.14 and to award costs to the defendant for having to defend against this improper claim.


CPR Breaches and Abuse of Process:
    * CPR 1.1 - The Overriding Objective:
    * The claim is not being dealt with justly or proportionately. The excessive amount claimed puts the defendant at a disadvantage, increases unnecessary costs, and is disproportionate to the original charge.
    * CPR 3.4 - Power to Strike Out:
    * CPR 3.4(2)(a): The claim for £160 (or whatever amount is shown the clim form) has no reasonable grounds, as it exceeds the lawful amount stipulated by PoFA 4(5).
    * CPR 3.4(2)(b): The claim represents an abuse of the court’s process by attempting to claim an amount not legally recoverable, thus obstructing the just disposal of proceedings.
    * CPR 27.14 - Costs on the Small Claims Track:
    * CPR 27.14(2)(g): The claimant’s behaviour in pursuing an excessive and unlawful amount is unreasonable, warranting the claim to be struck out and costs awarded to the defendant.

All the other breaches that you have put in your defence and expanded on in your WS such as no contract formed due to lack of or obscured and unlit signs need to be highlighted with reference to the particular parts of their ATA CoP that have been breached.

Make sure you create a set of notes as bullet points for yourself. Know where every reference to anything is in your WS and you can refer the judge to it. You've already been to court once for this so you now know that it is not quite as daunting as you expected.

Did you include a costs order with your WS? If you win, you should remember to ask for your costs which are up to £95 for loss of earnings and your transport costs and parking etc.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2024, 05:52:07 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #51 on: »
Thank you @b789  :)

The hearing is on 19/06 at Birmingham court.

The claimant's current claim is for £170 (£169.09 shown in the first box of the amount claimed on the N1SDT claim form)

I included standard witness costs for loss of earnings and attendance in court of £95 in my WS.

It will be a different judge at the next hearing and I will create a set of notes as bullet points of all the points you have raised and the applicable laws to go in and make a good case.




Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #52 on: »
That's good to hear. It's possible that the first judge for the resolution hearing was a junior deputy district judge. Hopefully the next judge will be more amenable to questioning the Claimant about the breaches you will be expanding on.

Let us know if the Claimant send a Supplementary WS. They sometimes try that. Also, when you go to court, make sure that you have spare copies of your WS as it is not unknown for the rep for the Claimant to try and say they don't have a copy of it.

It may be worth creating a Skeleton argument. A skeleton argument is a written summary of your case and your main arguments in your case. It should outline the relevant background facts of the case and briefly refer to the law that will be relied on in your arguments.

A Skeleton shout be served no later than two business days before the hearing. It may be worth having a read of this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Guide-to-the-Preparation-and-Service-of-Bundles-Skeleton-Arguments-and-Authorities-in-the-Business-and-Propert.pdf
« Last Edit: May 23, 2024, 03:17:28 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #53 on: »
@b789 I had another copy of the whole bundle in the post today which includes all of my paperwork and theirs.

Here is a link to my skeleton argument - https://file.io/Y8KJaBpJ1Ubn

I have never done one before so it might need some edits. Can you let me know what you think before I submit it, please?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2024, 06:42:26 pm by BigPoppa »

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #54 on: »
The link above does not work.

An additional point that has come up recently and seen claims struck out is if the Claimants WS has been signed by a paralegal or anyone from the solicitors reperesnting them. The following is an additional point to put in your own WS or in a SWS:

Quote
As a preliminary matter, the Defendant wishes to bring to the Court's attention that the Claimant's Witness Statement, signed by [Paralegal or Solicitor's Name] of [Solicitor Firm name] Solicitors, does not comply with CPR 32.4 and Practice Direction 32, which require that a witness statement be made by an individual with direct knowledge of the facts. Furthermore, Practice Direction 32, paragraph 18.2, stipulates that the statement must be in the witness's own words and include details of how the witness has direct knowledge of the matters stated. As [Paralegal or Solicitor's Name] does not have direct involvement in the events in question, the Witness Statement fails to meet these requirements. In light of this non-compliance, the Defendant respectfully requests that the Court strike out the claim pursuant to CPR 3.4(2)(c) due to the Claimant's failure to comply with the relevant rules and practice directions.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2024, 07:04:30 pm by b789 »
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #55 on: »
Thanks @b789 I have added your most recent additional point and re-uploaded it here - https://www.scribd.com/document/741716803/Skeleton-Upload

Let me know what you think.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #56 on: »
Skeleton?? Weight of evidence should not be taken literally.

Keep it simple IMO.

What are your main points in order of priority?

It seems that you've been given a steer by the previous judge, so I'd work with these i.e. consider how best to expand on those in your favour and counter those which appear otherwise. Let's be honest, the facts on the ground and your intentions are the ONLY points on which you have any detailed knowledge. As you say, 'I have not done one of these before' and it shows!

IMO, don't get bogged down in procedural matters. If these were silver bullets I'd take a different view, but IMO they are not.

Was the land controlled; was this brought to the motorist's attention; how; what was conveyed; if not a contract then you were a trespasser(perhaps unwittingly) - it's not a hanging offence, we've all probably done it at some stage on our lives; and trespass cannot give rise to the charge.

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #57 on: »
We won this one guys!! Thank you for all your help everyone especially to @b789

I was awarded 2 lots of £95 for 2 court appearances and my parking costs.

The judge completely agreed that the signs were unreadable especially as it was dark and this location had no lighting. She did not refer to any of the legal arguments in my documents but as I had the opportunity to cross-examine the Gladstones solicitor I asked him about why the particulars of the claim as filed and served did not set out the conduct which
amounted to the breach and he did not have an answer. I also asked him how he expects motorists to read the signs at night without any lighting and he argued that the signs have been approved by the law to which I showed the judge the example of the Beavis case.

Glad to see the back of this! Thanks all once again this forum is a life saver!!

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #58 on: »
You’re welcome. One which grounds did the judge actually dismiss the claim? Was it on the fact that if the signs were not visible or they were unreadable and that no contract could have been formed?

Was it because the claimant failed to state a cause of action in the PoC?

Just trying to find out which points in your defence and WS were the triggers for the judges decision on the facts.
Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience” - Mark Twain

Re: Euro Parking County court letter
« Reply #59 on: »
It was dismissed due to the Judge agreeing with me that the signs would have been unreadable due to no lighting and it being dark that night.

Also, the judge said that she agreed with me, that even if the signs were readable, I had not parked obstructively as there was enough room for cars to pass by my car and I had not blocked the walkway. Also, there are no marked bays at all in this space but Gladstone's solicitors were aruging that I had breached due to not parking in a marked parking space and I had parked obstructively by blocking the walkway for pedestrians and cars.
Like Like x 1 View List